Lightning

[charger]

Does anyone know who the Coach is?

[froggy]

not appointed yet

money the issue

[Fish]

how much you after frog

[newsupporter]

charger said:

Does anyone know who the Coach is?

Rumours are it's not who we think it is and is a coach of a club

[offtheball]

McClafferty making a comeback perhaps?

[Fish]

appears that way

[johnnywarren]

yes, he was there last thursday running the squad. so obviously he has been appointed.

[oziboy]

$950 Lightning fees, at present if my kids were in I'd be worried about paying $9.50 to the CCF (following reported loss of $500K this year see Michael Keech resign's thread )
Will the parents get value for their $950 this year somehow
I doubt it, can the CCF sustain this loss. ?
Where is soccer heading on the coast. ?

[johnnywarren]

oziby - if you want the coast to go places why not put your hand up and be counted for and put some time into coaching at that level. forget keech and what he has left behind. soccer up here will be sustainable and has too keep moving on.
id be more worried if we get level 5 water restrictions up here. then no club can play on ovals at all.
their was 21 days to go over all the financials since the last agm 2 weeks ago. wait to see exactly where the club is at before writing off the system

[oziboy]

Johnny Warren I'm first to admit I can't coach at that level.
I have put my hand up in the past for various duties involved in soccer and have always tried to do those within my ability.
As you know there are plenty of very good coaches that won't have any thing to do with the CCF (not my doing).
Of course I want soccer to go ahead the lightning is not a club I believe it is part of the CCF.
" soccer up here will be sustainable " On what do you base that opinion. ?
Yes keech is in the past the point is that money is required to run soccer on the coast.
There comes a time with these types of difficulties where the money runs out when will that be. ?

[Rowdy]

Valid point on the money issue.

A good example is what happened in the last year of the now defunct CCUFC. A lot of the CCUFC finances were 'soaked up' by the 1st grade team Coaching staff and the signing of some of the players. That year fee's for the kid's were $660, still had to buy your shorts, socks, bag and tracksuit, luckily for myself the gear was the same as the year before so i had no need to but anyone new to the club had to.

So for the $660 all you got was the 'privledge' of representing the Central Coast and for the boys it was the first year in an inferior competition, Super League, the tier below Premier League.

As for the girls and 1st grade women, approx. 3/4 way through the season they were threatened by Soccer NSW that unless the CCUFC paid the fee's required for the girls and women then they would be playing each week for 'no points' and any points for wins would not be awarded later on even if fee's were paid at a later point. (I think boys might have been in the same situation earlier in their season)

The problem was the club had no money left to pay these fee's. How could this possibly happen? The parents of players had all paid there $660 for the year, remembering that gear was extra on top of this. Where had the money gone? As I said, 1st grade that year was costing the club heaps, with poor attendances and Coaches and players also costing big dollars, who in the end also weren't getting paid.

The problem with Rep football on the Coast is not in attracting quality coaches, it lies in the poor administration.

Hell for years the canteen was run without a cash register, just a cash drawer, and banked during the day to a margarine container under the bench or in the back room, and this happened despite having a computerised register sitting in the bar area just waiting to be programmed with information on the items the canteen was selling. One day after a game at Pluim I gave my daughter $20 to buy about $3 worth of lollies, she came back to me with $3 worth of lollies and $37 in change. all the more reason that 'that computerised cash register' should have been put to use.

In relation to the problem that the girls faced that year I asked what appeared to me to be a logical, straightforward rhetorical question. Why doesn't the amount required by Soccer NSW for both player, team and club registration be separated as the first payment required by players parents. This could then be paid directly to Soccer NSW, that way parents have a peace of mind that their kid's are fully rego'd and the club then can't spend it on whatever they deem to more important at that time. It would also bring about some transparency as to where our hard earned money goes in regards to the high cost of playing rep Football.

Answer, it can't work like that! Why? because when you get an 'itemised' bill at a restaurant it states exactly what you ate, so you know whether you got charged the right amount and can then decide if the meal was money worth spent. If you received a bill in a restaurant for $660 and that's all it said, a total of $660, natural instincts kick-in and you start to question 'did I really order that much food or was the food really that expensive that I ordered'. The financial director that year, who I ocassionally see in BAY16, failed to submit the required full financial report at the AGM and left the club.

Well the way that they were doing various things and I'm sure it's still the same wasn't working and by the sound of it, with a reported $500,000.00 net profit loss, it still isn't.

[keensy]

Dont know all the laws behind getting a license to seel alcohol, but it should be done. No bar at the football is unheard of. Also, im sure ruden is sick of having to sneak alcohol in when he could be buying beer from them if they had a license

[oziboy]

Keensy “Accountability” is what it’s all about.

The committee of CCUFC were accountable to the members of the club as to how the finances are spent, they have pretty onerous responsibilities under the “Association Act” to make sure the right is done.

I would suggest that if the members of CCUFC had a problem with the way things were done that they take the appropriate action and if that is going to the
authorities “that be it”.

I believe the CCUFC is still registered should they have gone into administration. ?

Similarly Keensy the directors of the CCF are ultimately accountable.

Maybe these people will only take notice if action is taken and surely that would be for the good of the sport.

[thetoffeemen]

Oziboy, could not have put it better if I tried, these so called responsible board members representing 22 clubs and representative players both girls and boys at youth and senior level are nothing but back yard country bumkins who know nothing when it comes to management, both financially and responsibility, if they did then Keech would never have been appointed in the first place, excluding the new board members all previous board members under the Keech regime should be sacked. Its strange how not one of them asked how the cashflow is when they sat in the box at the mariners games sipping, oh sorry, swallowing their drinks. I rest my case.

[oziboy]

Sorry last post meant to be addressed to Rowdy roddy. Cheers to thetoffeemen.

Rally your club delegate/commitee ask for a copy of the CCF's budget's it should be available let's make sure it makes sense and they stick to it we do need transparency. The directors should check the budget at monthly meetings and then correct any problems not wait until there is a massive loss.

Full financial statments are lodged to ASIC and are available at www,.asic.gov.au CCSA 2005 Financial report is Doc. Id 022681208 makes for interesting reading.

Appointing Keech I believe was a massive mistake but what was done about it - nothing. We are all the poorer now due to his legacy both financially and in relation to the loss of truly talented coaching staff.

All directors have to sign this once a year "In the directors opinion there are reasonable grounds to believe that the company will be able to pay it's debts as and when they fall due and payable". Remember "when they fall due and payable" not 30, 60, 90 or 120 days later.

Can this be signed at present without sleepless nights for the directors. ? MAYBE NOT.

[fulltime]

There is a lot of passion about this issue, but a lot of semi-informed opinion as well.
Firstly appointing Michael Keech was definitely a mistake when looked at in hindsight, but at the time he was easily the best candidate according to the selection committee which included the CCSA chairman (who is a competent and intelligent person) as well as Lawrie McKinna who does know a thing or two about football administrators. Keech managed to con all of them. As anyone in business knows it is harder to sack an employee who is contracted and I am sure that Mr Keech would have chased CCF for all of the remaining time on his contract had he been sacked.

As far as CCUFC are concerned - they could have been placed inadministration because of their financial position and mismanagement but it would have meant the end of rep football on the coast if they were as Soccer NSW would not entertain another club from this area if this had happened to CCUFC. CCF were placed in a position where they had to take over the debts of CCUFC to ensure contnued rep football as well as fund a new entity (Lightning). Keech's "stunt" of cutting fees last year did more damage that imaginable. They should have been set at $950 and that would have covered a $80000 shortfall. Not all of the funds were being used to prop up the senior teams. There is $40,000 outstanding to junior coaches and managers from last year - which represents approx $300 per junior player out of their fees. If you include about $200 pp for gear, then you can see why there is a loss because that is all the fees taken up before registration fees and referees are paid.

The canteen made a loss this year - not just because they didn't sell alcohol. Keech paid someone over $35K to run the canteen and then paid for all the casual help they had in there as well - and all they did was lose money. Might be a coincidence, but the canteen guy is a friend and from the same club as the former Finance Director.

Keech never informed the CCF Board or the delegates that the coaches were being paid ($2k per coach, $1K per assistant and $1K per manager) - it was never included in any reports or accounts. He also hid a number of expenses from the board and the delegates but proving this is harder than it may look, and the end result would be a lot of extra expense for little or no return.

As for the cashflow - a $350K credit facility that was arranged to fund the new building at Pluim Park and match the government grant that CCF received was presented to the Board and the delegates as being available, when in fact it had been drawn down and spent. Mind you if the CCF had a competent Finance Director last year it may never had happened but he seemed happy to approve all of the payments then blame everbody else for the problems. He did not present a single budget to the Board or the delegates, all the time blaming Keech for the non-appearance of any financial plan. They are both to blame IMHO.

What CCF and also Lightning need now is the full support of all members of the football community. The Board is apparently taking some hard decisions and doing a lot to get the organisation back on track. ETU still owes a considerable sum of money which they have not paid because of Keech's broken promises.

So instead of looking for someone to blame (and I think we all know where that should be directed) why don't we get behind those that are working so hard for the right reasons of keeping football alive and healthy.

[voice of reason]

Fulltime....a few points

the reason there are semi informed opinions is a lot to do with lack of transparency at CCF and from Keech. The term 'smoke and mirrors' springs to mind.

Keech was full of empty promises. Many of us could tell you that from day 1 of meeting him. But these misgivings were discounted as being negative. We were told to look forward and give him support. It has a sort of familiar ring to it, doesn't it? How anyone was fooled to give this clown a contract is beyond belief. Hindsight be damned! His contempt for members of the local football community was obvious. Rowdy Roddy told us so, and anyone who is a decent judge of character also felt it. I've got a good idea for any interviewees. Ask them to name the top 3 teams of the EPL or name 6 Socceroos. That should be a good starting point to see if the person is football orientated or self-orientated like Keech. The new appointee, Mark Boyd, certainly comes out top on soccer credentials, and appears far more open and approachable. That gives me more confidence. Then you can look at their professional qualifications.

As for the current troubles, there is a very sound argument for getting a forensic accountant to investigate the whole business but I fear it would seriously damage prospects of rep football, maybe even club football, on the coast this season.
Let's bury our heads in the sand for another season.

[newsupporter]

Interesting comments but "beileve nothing you hear and only 1/2 of what you see" is something I was taught a long time ago so do we know 100% of facts or are we picking at straws and I garee with your comments so don't get me wrong. Finance Director issues yes but what about the other person that works in the office must be a book keeper or something similar. they also hold some responsibility surely. I was at a mariners game a few weeks ago and I saw a CCF box as I was sitting in front and notice some faces and heard they paid sponsorship to CCM - does anyone know if that is true because there's money that shouldn't be spent, if we are in debt. What about the staff that were put off, rumours say and only rumours so don't believe everything may not have been paid as yet, which isn't right, since it wasn't their fault at who was employed or the shortfalls in income. If the FD knew we had major financial issues why employ a high paying position of a HPM at the moment until things resolve themselves. Have a great xmas and lets hope we can trade out as it's a long drive ro Sydney to watch / play football.

[oziboy]

Firstly once again it’s about accountability Fulltime it’s the director’s that are accountable if the chairman (who is a competent and intelligent person – you say I don’t know him) couldn’t see this unfolding then that’s a problem, is he the person to lead the board in the future. ?
Fulltime please inform me how much does the CCF have in the bank ? can they trade out of this one. ?
I don't know about the selection of the GM but from all accounts soon after appointment showed his true colors with the contempt he had for the people who were paying his wages.
If apparently the GM paid coaches under the table or whatever " that the coaches were being paid ($2k per coach, $1K per assistant and $1K per manager)" I find it hard to believe out of all the teams no one knew this. ? ( in such a close knit community – do any directors relatives or friends coach or manage ? )
Anyway point is if this is true it’s in breach of his duty and could involve a possible fraud or misappropriation of fund charges, what was done about it. ?
“ As for the cashflow - a $350K credit facility that was arranged to fund the new building at Pluim Park and match the government grant that CCF received was presented to the Board and the delegates as being available, when in fact it had been drawn down and spent.” If this is true I would believe one word describes it fraud. Who presented this. ? Who spent the money. ? Who signs the cheque’s . ? Who authorizes payment’s . ? Simply the directors are responsible and if an employee does the wrong thing that’s why we have a legal system in NSW.

" He did not present a single budget to the Board or the delegates " - did the directors or delegates demand a budget or did they not worry about it. ?
“Once again directors are accountable”.

“ What CCF and also Lightning need now is the full support of all members of the football community. They always have this !!!.

Let’s blame somebody who’s no longer there and look towards the future – I’m a bit sick and tired of this “make them accountable” then it may not happen again. !! It’s not their money that’s gone missing it’s the football community’s.

" Let's bury our heads in the sand for another season. " Why do we have to do this again ? ? "or let's give them another chance " no bugger that let's make them accountable."

OOPS Sorry about the above I forgot we can’t have an opinion or ask a question of course we can give us a chance for “ We are not the one’s bringing down football. ”

Long live football on the coast I write this sitting here in my Mariners shirt.

[marinatormom]

rowdyroddy said:

Valid point on the money issue.

A good example is what happened in the last year of the now defunct CCUFC. A lot of the CCUFC finances were 'soaked up' by the 1st grade team Coaching staff and the signing of some of the players. That year fee's for the kid's were $660, still had to buy your shorts, socks, bag and tracksuit, luckily for myself the gear was the same as the year before so i had no need to but anyone new to the club had to.

So for the $660 all you got was the 'privledge' of representing the Central Coast and for the boys it was the first year in an inferior competition, Super League, the tier below Premier League.

As for the girls and 1st grade women, approx. 3/4 way through the season they were threatened by Soccer NSW that unless the CCUFC paid the fee's required for the girls and women then they would be playing each week for 'no points' and any points for wins would not be awarded later on even if fee's were paid at a later point. (I think boys might have been in the same situation earlier in their season)

The problem was the club had no money left to pay these fee's. How could this possibly happen? The parents of players had all paid there $660 for the year, remembering that gear was extra on top of this. Where had the money gone? As I said, 1st grade that year was costing the club heaps, with poor attendances and Coaches and players also costing big dollars, who in the end also weren't getting paid.

The problem with Rep football on the Coast is not in attracting quality coaches, it lies in the poor administration.

Hell for years the canteen was run without a cash register, just a cash drawer, and banked during the day to a margarine container under the bench or in the back room, and this happened despite having a computerised register sitting in the bar area just waiting to be programmed with information on the items the canteen was selling. One day after a game at Pluim I gave my daughter $20 to buy about $3 worth of lollies, she came back to me with $3 worth of lollies and $37 in change. all the more reason that 'that computerised cash register' should have been put to use.

In relation to the problem that the girls faced that year I asked what appeared to me to be a logical, straightforward rhetorical question. Why doesn't the amount required by Soccer NSW for both player, team and club registration be separated as the first payment required by players parents. This could then be paid directly to Soccer NSW, that way parents have a peace of mind that their kid's are fully rego'd and the club then can't spend it on whatever they deem to more important at that time. It would also bring about some transparency as to where our hard earned money goes in regards to the high cost of playing rep Football.

Answer, it can't work like that! Why? because when you get an 'itemised' bill at a restaurant it states exactly what you ate, so you know whether you got charged the right amount and can then decide if the meal was money worth spent. If you received a bill in a restaurant for $660 and that's all it said, a total of $660, natural instincts kick-in and you start to question 'did I really order that much food or was the food really that expensive that I ordered'. The financial director that year, who I ocassionally see in BAY16, failed to submit the required full financial report at the AGM and left the club.

Well the way that they were doing various things and I'm sure it's still the same wasn't working and by the sound of it, with a reported $500,000.00 net profit loss, it still isn't.

The real problem with CCUFC two seasons ago was the fact that it was a very closed executive committee. All bar 3 maybe 4 committee members had full control.

There was nearly none if any team representatives at committee meetings, there were none if any parents of players at committee meetings unless there was a problem in a team that the parents wanted a coach ousted.

And if you were new to the club, a parent, who really wanted to get in, roll your sleeves up and work for the future of the club, you were not allowed to ask questions or question decisions and long standing members of the board and or committee didnt want your input.

When you raised issues of concern regarding financial standings at monthly meetings there were never ever any answers, half the time the treasurer wasnt even there.

Hell, parents were hit up for monies owing on clothing they didnt even know they owed at the last game of the season and i can tell you that there were still thousands of dollars still owing in registration fee's. Halfway through the season there were still players in every team that still had not paid one cent of their fees. There was not one team in the junior girls or boys that didnt have a player owing some form of fees.

And the board of directors all jumped ship before the
AGM because they didnt want to loose their own houses over the missing monies from the clubs accounts. Which very well could of happened being directors of any business or club.

And not to mention the canteen got robbed 6 times in one season, unheard off. In one instance the canteen managed to get robbed of all alcohol after it had been filled that afternoon 26 cartons of beer, 6 cartons of cans of spirits, with out even the gates being unlocked or opened. How did the car get in to transport all this alcohol I ask, Inside job I ask ? The answer i got was that they walked the many heavy cartons up to the end field and got through the fence and bush and parked besides on the road in tuggerah st. BOLLOCKS.

The then canteen manager had the canteen books stolen from the front seat of his car. hmmm, why would someone steal those ? hmmm. On three occasions i worked in the canteen i witnessed parents stealing money and giving away food items and drinks, canteen profits given away, stolen. And when you reported these observations to executive they didnt do anything about it.

SO, to answer the question as to who's accountable/responsible for the funds, running of and the future of CCF and football on the central coast wether it be clubs, reps or association is YOU.


YOU the player
YOU the parent
YOU the coach
YOU the Manager
YOU the committee member
YOU the executive and general manager
and YES YOU the supporter

All of YOU, should be attending committee meetings, all of YOU should be questioning and challenging and voting at meetings. And all of YOU should be putting your hands up and standing up when things dont seem right.

Until this starts to happen, then the running of soccer on the coast will never prospure financially and fruitfully because it will be left up to the few whether they be honest or not. Many hands make light work and many eyes see many things.