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Post by Ursus on Sept 9, 2007 19:36:51 GMT 10
What everyone has ignored so far, is the fact that Muscat has only labelled foreign players as cheats. What does he mean by this? Why is it that a foreign player who dives is worse than an Australian? And he also seems to be saying that this nasty foreign invasion will corrupt our white-as-milk players. It sounds distinctly racist to me...has he forgotten that he too was a foreign player once. Oh, sorry, he was a white player in a white football league...that doesn't count does it? Joel Griffiths. ;D He from Newcastle, white,and loves to take a dive. ;D Number one dickhead for me Newcastle player = Foreign Player ;D |
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Post by curious on Sept 9, 2007 20:47:25 GMT 10
pete...only 2 weeks ago in semi a 20yr old playing ina state league semi dislocated his shoulder, walked off the field, ran into the sheds followed by the strapper. He was back out so fast he beat the sub onto the field. It happed again the next week, but this time he wasn't allowed to go back on by his coach as his team were down 4-0. Both times the shoulder was dislocated in jumping for a header with little or no contact. I saw it myself & heard the "pop".  Ouch...... The strapper tells me the shoulder tendons/mucles can stretch in a dislocation & with pressures of playing, not given enough time to heal %100 & can then dislocate with as much as an awkward twist of the arm. |
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Post by curious on Sept 9, 2007 21:19:51 GMT 10
What everyone has ignored so far, is the fact that Muscat has only labelled foreign players as cheats. What does he mean by this? Why is it that a foreign player who dives is worse than an Australian? And he also seems to be saying that this nasty foreign invasion will corrupt our white-as-milk players. It sounds distinctly racist to me...has he forgotten that he too was a foreign player once. Oh, sorry, he was a white player in a white football league...that doesn't count does it? You read it very differently to me beo. Only labelled foreign players? Where did it say that? "FORMER Socceroo Kevin Muscat says the influx of foreign players to the A-League is leading to increased instances of cheating."
"We're already seeing a dangerous side-effect of this importation of talent and I think the league needs to step in to stamp it out," An "increased instances" means more than previous - to be more of the previous sum. In other words, he states that cheating also occured before "the influx" of foreign players. Of course, he is correct. Be it from a black, white or brindle player, nothing looks more ridiculous or than a grown man throwing both his feet in the air to fake a trip or foul & rolling around around on the ground like he was just castrated, in trying to milk a free kick or penalty. Must add, even worse when they cover their face & sneak a look to see if the ref is going to take the bait, which reminds me of toddler age kids who sneak a look at mum or dad from behind crocodile tears to see if it's getting the sympathy intended. (the little buggas  How do you think "soccer" got it's past reputation in Australia as a pansy sport? It's not from players wearing pink jerseys. Now there's an idea to stand out from the rest  Ok....I'll close the door as I leave.  |
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Post by omni on Sept 9, 2007 21:29:21 GMT 10
Could this be about an incident on Saturday where he whacked Cassio with his Cast?
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Post by greenpoleffc on Sept 9, 2007 22:20:41 GMT 10
Griffiths is a nasty, sneaky, cheating C who is a blight on the human race. By all accounts he is a smug, nasty little git in real life as well.
He is a cheat and he needs stamping out.
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Post by Pete on Sept 10, 2007 8:14:31 GMT 10
pete...only 2 weeks ago in semi a 20yr old playing ina state league semi dislocated his shoulder, walked off the field, ran into the sheds followed by the strapper. He was back out so fast he beat the sub onto the field. It happed again the next week, but this time he wasn't allowed to go back on by his coach as his team were down 4-0. Both times the shoulder was dislocated in jumping for a header with little or no contact. I saw it myself & heard the "pop". Ouch...... The strapper tells me the shoulder tendons/mucles can stretch in a dislocation & with pressures of playing, not given enough time to heal %100 & can then dislocate with as much as an awkward twist of the arm. That's fair enough curious, and yes, Ouch! But I saw little attention given to Tiatto by the trainer, and he did stay on the sideline I think (was watching Foxtel broadcast - they obviously didn't keep the vision on him 100% of the time). It looked suss. And the fact he went straight back out, without as much as being tender with his arm or holding his shoulder, made it look suss too. I suppose now I've bitched about it, he'll be out this week due to a shoulder/arm injury - that's the way my luck is, of late  . |
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Post by Jesus on Sept 10, 2007 9:44:08 GMT 10
I read he did dislocate his shoulder, the trainer just popped it back in
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marinermick
Moderator 
Coming to Bay 16 Soon
Posts: 8,657
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Post by marinermick on Sept 10, 2007 9:56:40 GMT 10
tiatto was the best player on the park thursday night
he was immense
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Post by bakery5 on Sept 10, 2007 9:59:16 GMT 10
I love Tiatto post-match interview when he said "That was shit"
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Post by Pete on Sept 10, 2007 9:59:40 GMT 10
tiatto was the best player on the park thursday night he was immense Grumpy ageing psychopath ;D ;D ;D (hope he doesn't read this forum tho) [ Dibo, this was done whilst dancing the Stomp to the tune of The Theme from The Exoricst aka Tubular Bells part 1] ;D |
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Post by thesandman on Sept 10, 2007 10:46:42 GMT 10
So keep in mind that Muscat actually isn't supporting his claims in any form - and AFAIK there hasn't been any diving so far this season. He's just saying that we've got Brazilians so we'll probably see diving. Never mind that we see diving already....
Personally, I'd rather see people dive then people go and deliberately attack other players. And with the number of cheap shots he pulls I think he needs to wake up to himself and realise he's nothing but a cheat either.
I agree that diving should be pulled up in post-match video review. Actually, I think this will be the only way to stamp diving out of the match. But for Muscat to be the one to say all this is an absolute joke - maybe if it came from somebody with a bit of integrity it might not be so funny.
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Post by Pete on Sept 10, 2007 11:20:45 GMT 10
So keep in mind that Muscat actually isn't supporting his claims in any form - and AFAIK there hasn't been any diving so far this season. He's just saying that we've got Brazilians so we'll probably see diving. Never mind that we see diving already.... Personally, I'd rather see people dive then people go and deliberately attack other players. And with the number of cheap shots he pulls I think he needs to wake up to himself and realise he's nothing but a cheat either. I agree that diving should be pulled up in post-match video review. Actually, I think this will be the only way to stamp diving out of the match. But for Muscat to be the one to say all this is an absolute joke - maybe if it came from somebody with a bit of integrity it might not be so funny. Well said, I think that's what a lot of us have been trying to say.... |
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Post by ~Floss~ on Sept 10, 2007 11:42:54 GMT 10
...I agree that diving should be pulled up in post-match video review. Actually, I think this will be the only way to stamp diving out of the match. But for Muscat to be the one to say all this is an absolute joke - maybe if it came from somebody with a bit of integrity it might not be so funny. ATM, ref's can only judge the actual incident and the quality of the player's acting immediately afterwards. With video review, how quickly a player gets up and plays on after the foul has been awarded could be a big factor - possibly more so than the actual incident and the quality of their acting. But if the foul actually happened, but just needed some exaggeration to catch the ref's attention, is this really "cheating" by definitiion? The outcome of the game would be more affected if the foul was missed. Then if picked-up afterwards on video review, what do you do about it? Suspend/fine players, but what if it's a finals match? I think "cheating" refers to completely fabricating a foul that should not have ever been a foul. This, IMO, is more rare (certainly in the A-league) than players exaggerating an actual incident. |
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Post by thesandman on Sept 10, 2007 12:44:14 GMT 10
Floss - I would think that video review panels would be rather reluctant to punish a player for making a 'miraculous' recovery - we all know that sometimes strong pain from an impact can subside relatively quickly, so players will usually get the benefit of the doubt. But if a foul has definitely been fabriacted, then I think that a video review panel should be able to punish a player for it. Actually, at the international level I think fining the country for a large number of breaches would also be appropriate - yellow card for the player and $10k per breach? Imagine how much money FIFA would be making out of the Australia v Uruguay matches!! I think we also have to keep in mind that players going down from slight contact can be cheating also. Unfortunately, a number of bookings for diving in the HAL have actually later been found to be incorrect - so if you're going to caution players in video review for that, you also have to be prepared to rescind cautions, even when it leads to a red card (thus rescinding the red card) - which has happened. I remember one incident we were shown in a FIFA training DVD - there was a blatant foul, worth of a yellow card, but while watching the DVD the entire audience started counting the number of time the player on the ground rolled - I think it got to about 8! Unanimous decision was the he gets the free kick and a caution for being a tard  We're fortunate that cheating isn't a large part of the game here. Yes it happens, but it is VERY difficult for referees to accurately pull up. I think the strongest defence we have against cheaters is to not accept their behaviours - and coaches need to take some responsibility for this as well (well, it'd be nice to think they'll prioritise 'the good of the game' over winning anyway!), as well as the offending player's teammates. I can't see cheating ever becoming as prevalent here as in other countries. I remember one of our players in Season 1 copped a slight punch from....think it was Muscat, actually! He dropped like a sack of potatoes, some people say he took a dive, some say that Muscat just got him in that spot where it barely takes any force to make somebody go down. A good example of how unless we learn to read minds we'll never be 100% accurate when it comes to cheaters (not that I'm saying he is, but just the amount of disagreement shows that). |
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Post by curious on Sept 10, 2007 13:07:48 GMT 10
tiatto was the best player on the park thursday night he was immense Agree Mick. The guy is a class player, as is Muscat. Pity they both let the cheap shots get out of hand at times. |
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Post by curious on Sept 10, 2007 13:13:02 GMT 10
Agree, though maybe it took someone like Muscat to have the guts to cause a stir in saying it.
Shooting the messenger doesn't change the contents of the message.
& yes, diving isn't as prevalent in the aleague as many overseas leagues, but muscat eluded to that & also added he didn't want it reach a stage were it was. Kids emulate the way they see football played by the stars, be it here or elswhere. I see it in growing in elite youth comps more & more each year & the young buggers are damn good at it too.
Coaches won't stop it if it is rewarded with a free kick or penalty but they will if cards meant suspensions. It's been viewed as an acceptable "part of the game" for too long.
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Post by ~Floss~ on Sept 10, 2007 15:37:17 GMT 10
Floss - I would think that video review panels would be rather reluctant to punish a player for making a 'miraculous' recovery - we all know that sometimes strong pain from an impact can subside relatively quickly, so players will usually get the benefit of the doubt. But if a foul has definitely been fabriacted, then I think that a video review panel should be able to punish a player for it. Actually, at the international level I think fining the country for a large number of breaches would also be appropriate - yellow card for the player and $10k per breach? Imagine how much money FIFA would be making out of the Australia v Uruguay matches!! I think we also have to keep in mind that players going down from slight contact can be cheating also. Unfortunately, a number of bookings for diving in the HAL have actually later been found to be incorrect - so if you're going to caution players in video review for that, you also have to be prepared to rescind cautions, even when it leads to a red card (thus rescinding the red card) - which has happened. I remember one incident we were shown in a FIFA training DVD - there was a blatant foul, worth of a yellow card, but while watching the DVD the entire audience started counting the number of time the player on the ground rolled - I think it got to about 8! Unanimous decision was the he gets the free kick and a caution for being a tard We're fortunate that cheating isn't a large part of the game here. Yes it happens, but it is VERY difficult for referees to accurately pull up. I think the strongest defence we have against cheaters is to not accept their behaviours - and coaches need to take some responsibility for this as well (well, it'd be nice to think they'll prioritise 'the good of the game' over winning anyway!), as well as the offending player's teammates. I can't see cheating ever becoming as prevalent here as in other countries. I remember one of our players in Season 1 copped a slight punch from....think it was Muscat, actually! He dropped like a sack of potatoes, some people say he took a dive, some say that Muscat just got him in that spot where it barely takes any force to make somebody go down. A good example of how unless we learn to read minds we'll never be 100% accurate when it comes to cheaters (not that I'm saying he is, but just the amount of disagreement shows that). These are the kinds of questions i was expecting to raise (but not answer). This is by no means a black-&-white issue of "dive" or "no-dive", therefore punish or don't punish. |
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Post by curious on Sept 10, 2007 16:10:11 GMT 10
A far less tolerance of diving/play acting, more akin to that of dangerous play &/or fouls?
Another beef I have in football is the tolerance by refs & the game, of the verbal abuse/backchat/name calling by players towards refs & ass. refs. Often in the extreme. The only team sport in oz (don't know enough to say the world) that tolerates it to any degree & in any form.
Buts thats another story for another time.
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Post by omni on Sept 10, 2007 20:59:56 GMT 10
I don't I yellow card for dissent as a number of people on this message board know!
But yea, how the hell Daniel stayed on the park in Round 2 is beyond me, maybe because he can't speak English?
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Post by valentius borealis on Sept 10, 2007 22:20:15 GMT 10
The article that's been mentioned here was different to article that I read, in which Nathan Burns was named with regards to picking up bad habits from the imports.
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Ouch...... The strapper tells me the shoulder tendons/mucles can stretch in a dislocation & with pressures of playing, not given enough time to heal %100 & can then dislocate with as much as an awkward twist of the arm. 
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