B-League in talks

[Coastie]

FFA faces new push for feeder B-League
Email Printer friendly version Normal font Large font Michael Cockerill
September 28, 2007

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AdvertisementA MEETING in a Sydney hotel late next week will lay the framework for a national second-tier club competition, planned to be up and running next summer.

Several clubs from the old NSL, plus the state federations of NSW, Victoria, ACT and Queensland will be represented, and those involved are determined to overcome the misgivings of Football Federation Australia, which has so far blocked all attempts to establish a second-tier league.

The timing of the meeting is significant - the cash-strapped FFA is considering increasing the national registration levy for next year by up to 100 per cent and needs the backing of the state bodies to implement the price hike.

Asked why the FFA would be inclined to sanction a second-tier league given its stated opposition, a leading proponent of the new competition, who declined to be named, replied: "Because the FFA needs the states, and the states want something in return … the subject has been broached with the FFA, and the early signs are encouraging."

The new competition would be confined to the eastern seaboard - South Australia and Western Australia will be excluded because of travel costs - and is scheduled to run from October to March. A 12-team league and a 22-round season have been proposed.

The clubs believed to be under consideration include Marconi Stallions, Sydney United, Blacktown City, Wollongong Wolves, South Melbourne and Melbourne Knights - all part of the old NSL - plus Manly United, Sutherland Sharks, Penrith-Nepean United, a new Canberra side, a team from either the Gold Coast or Brisbane, and a third team from Melbourne.

All participating clubs will have to be rebranded, play in stadiums with a minimum seating capacity of 5000, and matches will not be played on the same day as A-League fixtures in the same city. Clubs are likely to pay a $100,000 licence fee and operate on playing budgets of about $500,000 a season. There is no intention to push for a promotion/relegation system to the A-League.

"The most important thing to understand is that this is not meant to be a competing competition, it's a complementary competition," one official said.

"From our talks with the A-League clubs, they want this to go ahead. We all know we need somewhere for players who aren't playing, or players coming back from injury, to play. But the main thing is we also need a league for youth development. We see a draft system whereby an A-League club can take on extra under-20 players, and the send them out to our clubs at the weekend.

"It's a feeder league we're talking about, and we're bearing the costs. We're doing this because the state leagues, as they stand, don't attract enough support. The old NSL clubs feel like they're being slowly strangled because they've invested a lot of money in infrastructure down the years, and they're not getting the stage they deserve. Something has to be done."

Meanwhile in other news, a Wollongong-based A-League bid is about to test the waters with the distribution of a prospectus to potential investors before a planned meeting with the FFA in November. The bidding group, working under the title of Great South Football, has failed to gain backing from WIN Corporation owner Bruce Gordon, while another wealthy local businessman, Fred Ferreira, has also stepped away from bankrolling the bid.

A spokesman for Ferreira, whose Wideform Group is among Australia's top 300 privately owned companies, said while he might consider a sponsorship role for a future A-League team, he would not become the owner.

Despite the setbacks, bid spokesman Eddy De Gabriele remained undaunted, saying: "Wollongong City Council has only just handed over the bid, so it's still in its infancy. We'll soon be contacting the business community to ascertain their interest … those businesses will be local as well as in the Sydney region. Obviously, the important thing is the bid needs to be sustainable."

Source: www.smh.com.au/news/a-league/ffa-faces-new-push-for-feeder-bleague/2007/09/27/1190486483142.html

I actually like the idea of it being called the B-league

So the FFA, basically are proposing a B-league, confined to the Eastern sea board to reduce travel costs. Stadiums must be > 5000 seats and budgets $500,000 a season. The article suggests the motive is to gain the support of the states who in turn would sanction a 100% price hike in player registration fees.

I can't get one thing clear. The point of the B-league is supposed to be a feeder league. But if the clubs in the B-league are not CCM reserves, Victory reserves etc, how is the idea of obtaining a player from the league all that different from obtaining a player from the B-league, i.e by cash transfer, any different from doing it from a state league? Furthermore, it mentions playing players who are not playing, or coming back from injury.. how does that work? Does each A-league club have a B-league 'buddy club'?

Of course I like the idea of a more all-encompassing second tier league, even if WA and SA are excluded. But I need more details on how the system works.

[greenpoleffc]

You would imagine that HAL teams would form strategic partnerships or take equity positions in these clubs???

[Jesus]

The FFA is not "pushing the idea". The state federations are pushing the idea.

I am not sure how cash strapped the FFA is with a new 14 million dollar government grant.

I think a youth league is a far better option than a "B-league".

[marinermick]

greenpoleffc said:

You would imagine that HAL teams would form strategic partnerships or take equity positions in these clubs???

blacktown would be a logical choice for us given the links already

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

jesus said:

The FFA is not "pushing the idea". The state federations are pushing the idea.

I am not sure how cash strapped the FFA is with a new 14 million dollar government grant.

I think a youth league is a far better option than a "B-league".

the youth league would be the b-league.

it'd operate a bit like the VFL does for the AFL now, or the Premier League for the NRL - look at young guns like Jamie Soward playing for Newtown as a Roosters contracted player until Saints signed him and he tore it up. if he had been playing in a youth league he may have done better on the park but wouldn't have had the exposure to the size and speed of open age competition.

[Pete]

I'm sorry if this sounds negative, but the article is quite vague in key areas, and sounds more like bar room talk than properly sourced information.

"A leading proponent of the League who declined to be named..."

A rebranding of some fierce opponents of rebranding (Marconi, South Melbourne), clubs that STILL have troubles at home (South Melbourne), no games for South Australia, WA (even tho a lot of our current crop of A-League and rep players have come thru there), no mention of reserving spots for youth development - basically you could run out the entire firsts team of a State League comp club - old hacks and players who can't score contracts with HAL clubs and all. As for the comment about no intention of promotion/relegation, I say Bullsh*t!

Stadiums to have a capacity of 5K, but participants to pay a 100K fee so how long before they go running to the FFA and say they can't pay. Running a parallel comp to the HAL, what's the chances of both comps competing for corp. $$, and even tho they mention that this League won't run in competition to the HAL on any given day in the same city - there's still the possibility of a Saturday game in Sydney and then a Sunday HAL game in Sydney. NO MENTION of Lightning getting a shot at the League, even tho we have a significant junior base that's been good enough to get a few spots on the CCM Roster.

These are just a few points I can see, at a glance. To me, it sounds like we are courting the devil for some small change.

[midfielder]

jesus said:

The FFA is not "pushing the idea". The state federations are pushing the idea.

I am not sure how cash strapped the FFA is with a new 14 million dollar government grant.

I think a youth league is a far better option than a "B-league".

NO NO NO, NEVER , NEVER, NEVER , to Marconi, Sydney United, South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights, & Olympic.

All these sides come with a ethnic support base, and in no time you will hear yet again at a national competition the sounds of Croatia, Croatia, Croatia, Clap Clap, Clap, at United & Knights games with Italian flag waving at Marconi games.

For F****** sake it took the old NSL to collapse to get those PRICKS out of the game and get some decent press. THAT’S WHAT THE CRAWFORD REPORT is all about.

That’s in part the reason why Sydney FC located to Moore park rather than Parramatta.

I would love a FA cup style system, maybe a B-league, certainly a youth league and women’s league.

BUT with ever bone in my body and every noise I can make never let those teams back in again.

Very simple in 1955 a group of people including Frank Lowy spilt football. They formed teams on ethnic lines maybe this was not their original intention but there supporters did spilt largely along ethnic lines. Football spent the next 50 years marginalized in the media. Corruptly and incompetently run and these clubs have not changed their stripes.

It’s true the state federations do control a lot of money. But don’t sell football today out as the guys at Marconi, Sydney United, South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights, & Olympic, have not changed.

I feel sorry for the other teams mentioned because they are fine.

I have played football for 47 years and still play, and almost made the grand final this year but a hand of god from a pox in our box knocked us out. I sat in Spirit Point at the Northern Spirit matches, went to some old NSL matches. Football has had never respect except for the last 3 years only. AFL are looking for ways to kill us off, Union is running sh#t scared of football, NRL is concerned.

We should never forget how badly (way to mild a word) the old NSL was and these people should never be let anywhere near a national league again. The AFL will be jumping for joy as will all their media jurno’s.

My call and I don’t know how but if the state won’t provide enough readies, then lets get control of the State Federations, how not sure except I think the associations support the Federations so get the association to support FFA directly.

New football is still very much a baby, old soccer and the types who ran it who still thing the same way can kill the baby. I prayed and hoped for years to get the ethnic teams out, so to Ben Buckley with a plea never lets these pricks back into a national comp.

[timmyv]

f*** this B-league.

GET THE YOUTH LEAGUE GOING

[thesandman]

I definitely think a youth league should come before a reserve grade (not quite sure if I can bring myself to call it B grade yet )

While I don't like the idea of it becoming so sydney-centric, it is a fair call about costs - altough if a youth league manages to be financially viable, costs should become more or less moot, IMO. It should be primarily considered a development league, so any money it brings in - either directly or indirectly (say, by making the HAL stronger hence more sponsorship money) should be considered a bonus.

We need to steer clear of any club with a strong ethnic base as we cannot risk having some of the rubbish we saw in the NSL - or even in our state league - start to creep in. However, considering how hard the FFA have worked to distance the HAL from the NSL, I'm pretty sure we'll be pretty safe as far as that's concerned. Personally, I'd like to see the youth league teams be junior teams of the HAL clubs - although I daresay that would be hotly debated as to whether they should be HAL clubs or if team entry should be independant of the HAL (or perhaps priority given to HAL clubs).

If a 2nd tier competition becomes as NSW-centric as this article would suggest, then how much influence would Football NSW have over the competition? I daresay they've had their hand in this proposal - and if that's the case then would it be possible to keep their influence out? That would depend on what individuals are responsible....we all know that politics can kill sport, and IF FNSW has had a hand, even discretely, in this proposal - and IF a 2nd tier competition does become as NSW-centric as this article suggests - and IF FNSW maintain their influence (assuming my first 'IF' is true), then I can only see things stalling at best, and going rapidly downhill a more likely occurence. FNSW has shown quite clearly that they have an utter disdain for the FFA, so I'm hoping that they're not involved in this - because if FNSW do get involved, either officially or through the occasional influential off-the-record telephone call, then it can only be bad. Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but the type of suggestions proposed in this article reak of the type of changes some of the megalomaniacs in FNSW would love in order to assert control.

Let's keep moving ahead with the new thinking, and let's develop a proper youth league in conjunction with existing HAL clubs, and let's keep staying above the rubbish that has harmed this sport in the past, and is still harming this sport. This will ensure a greater depth for all existing clubs while boosting the talent of local rep teams, particularly as those with experience in the new comp go back to their state comp teams to play, thus boosting local talent which eventually leads to a larger talent pool for the HAL and hopefully in the mid-term future will lead to a more skillful and more exciting competition.

I certainly think we need a women's league too - but a youth league is more important to the existing competition than a women's league, IMO. youth league, then a women's league, THEN if there's a need and a capacity, a 2nd tier senior compeition - but if we manage to get big enough to find a need for a 2nd tier senior competition on top of the youth and women's leagues (and have them all viable and positively contributing to the sport) then I would think that'd inodiocate that football has definitely progressed further than anybody could've ever dreamed.

[Jesus]

A 2nd tier comp is not needed. I do not think there is a need for that rather than expansion. They are talking about the "B" going for longer than the "A". Womens and youth 1st. Then expand A.

Lowy surely, and rightly, since crawford, is in position to tell the states where to go on their proposals. The Govt has invested him with powers, they will no doubt back him, especially being the 2nd richest man in the country.

I do not think the FFA is stupid enough to throw away sponsors dollars for the A league, meaning they will likely need to bail clubs with further investment in them greater than the 100k given by the clubs of B.

I do not want to see this get off the state feds drawing boards.

[forzamariners]

midfielder said:

NO NO NO, NEVER , NEVER, NEVER , to Marconi, Sydney United, South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights, & Olympic.

All these sides come with a ethnic support base, and in no time you will hear yet again at a national competition the sounds of Croatia, Croatia, Croatia, Clap Clap, Clap, at United & Knights games with Italian flag waving at Marconi games.

For F****** sake it took the old NSL to collapse to get those PRICKS out of the game and get some decent press. THAT’S WHAT THE CRAWFORD REPORT is all about.
.....

Your post reaks of racism.
If it wasn't for these ethnic clubs football in Australia would not be at the level it is today. In the old soccer days, while Anglo-Saxon australians were all playing rugby league and afl, people of ethnicities kept the real football alive down under.

[curious]

ozbaggie said:

midfielder said:

NO NO NO, NEVER , NEVER, NEVER , to Marconi, Sydney United, South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights, & Olympic.

All these sides come with a ethnic support base, and in no time you will hear yet again at a national competition the sounds of Croatia, Croatia, Croatia, Clap Clap, Clap, at United & Knights games with Italian flag waving at Marconi games.

For F****** sake it took the old NSL to collapse to get those PRICKS out of the game and get some decent press. THAT’S WHAT THE CRAWFORD REPORT is all about.
.....

Your post reaks of racism.
If it wasn't for these ethnic clubs football in Australia would not be at the level it is today. In the old soccer days, while Anglo-Saxon australians were all playing rugby league and afl, people of ethnicities kept the real football alive down under.

Sorry mate, but if your only 17 you wouldn't be old enough to know what the 'old Soccer' was like & not misunderstand what midfielder is referring to. While the ethnic based clubs & supporters help build football as a popular sport in Australia, they also helped in almost destroying any future it had through a refusal to let go of old world ways.

I presume midfielder is simply suggesting the old world influence be serverely limited at a national level.

The Musalik saga is a hint of what old soccer once was & is still clinging to.

Google the "Crawford Report" & have a read.

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

ozbaggie said:

midfielder said:

NO NO NO, NEVER , NEVER, NEVER , to Marconi, Sydney United, South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights, & Olympic.

All these sides come with a ethnic support base, and in no time you will hear yet again at a national competition the sounds of Croatia, Croatia, Croatia, Clap Clap, Clap, at United & Knights games with Italian flag waving at Marconi games.

For F****** sake it took the old NSL to collapse to get those PRICKS out of the game and get some decent press. THAT’S WHAT THE CRAWFORD REPORT is all about.
.....

Your post reaks of racism.
If it wasn't for these ethnic clubs football in Australia would not be at the level it is today. In the old soccer days, while Anglo-Saxon australians were all playing rugby league and afl, people of ethnicities kept the real football alive down under.

the problem with your post is that it's not based on facts. heaps of anglo kids and adults have been playing football for the last 60 years. it was not ever a 'wog-only' pursuit. particularly in places like newcastle and the central coast, anglo-aussies have been very prominent if not dominant.

ethnic clubs have done a great job to a point, but they had a time and it's passed. i don't see a place for croatia and hellas chants in top-level football in australia.

[greenpoleffc]

I suspect the FFA would rather eat their own vomit than readmit the old NSL clubs...........no one wants to see ancient European blood feuds enacted in suburban sports grounds anymore. The HAL clubs will kill it stone dead as well.

Thinking about it, this sounds like a trial balloon floated as an idea by the clubs in question. The FFA has a ready made sanction if the states dont play ball over fees - de registration.

Also, the numbers dont seem to work. If it costs an NRL club over $1m a season to run a 2nd grade side that piggybacks a national comp (2 and a bit states anyway) - how the hell are these clowns going to do it for $500k??

[midfielder]

ozbaggie said:

midfielder said:

NO NO NO, NEVER , NEVER, NEVER , to Marconi, Sydney United, South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights, & Olympic.

All these sides come with a ethnic support base, and in no time you will hear yet again at a national competition the sounds of Croatia, Croatia, Croatia, Clap Clap, Clap, at United & Knights games with Italian flag waving at Marconi games.

For F****** sake it took the old NSL to collapse to get those PRICKS out of the game and get some decent press. THAT’S WHAT THE CRAWFORD REPORT is all about.
.....

Your post reaks of racism.
If it wasn't for these ethnic clubs football in Australia would not be at the level it is today. In the old soccer days, while Anglo-Saxon australians were all playing rugby league and afl, people of ethnicities kept the real football alive down under.

Your wrong, very wrong I live, eat, work, play football with many people from various ethnic and cultural backgrounds. What was Rasism if the truth be told was often the actions of the very same clubs trying to get back in.

Another point of error Anglos always played football in huge numbers far more than rugby league.

As a matter of history in the coal towns of Newcastle football in Australia was born.

If you want more information as someone has already told you go to google and look up Crawdford Report

Now do you get it these clubs are very bad news and it's their last I hope grasp for power.

[Jimmydinho]

f*** the B-league, expand the teams playing in the A-league, have we all forgotten about that?

Then work on womens + reserve team.

[Jesus]

I cant wait for a longer season. Though I think the FFA will start with youth and womens. Though 14mil, could get them started on all 3.

But to hell with a b league.

It was a very good point, that the "ethnic" clubs, were rasicist in ideals. Just because they were not from the predominant race, doesnt make it different.

[thesandman]

From the Football NSW website:
MEDIA RELEASE

Football NSW President Jim Forrest categorically refutes any suggestion of Football NSW's involvement in attempts to set up a B-League competition based on an Eastern Seaboard conference.

"In fact I very much doubt that there is any such meeting next week as suggested in the Herald report", he says.

He was referring to a report featured on the back page of the sports section of the Sydney Morning Herald on Friday suggesting that Football NSW would be attending a meeting next week to discuss a B-League.

We are not involved in any such discussions and are totally unaware of any communication with any NSW Premier League clubs or other states. We understand that Football QLD is equally unaware of its alleged involvement.

Football NSW clubs would be concerned at any proposal which could increase or double the costs of participating in this suggested league, without any guarantee of an adequate financial return.

We have been working closely with Football Federation Australia in order that our NSW Premier League and the A-League complement each other. There is a loan scheme for players between Premier League and A-League clubs operating in both directions at present.

“Any suggestion that FFA agreement to a B-League competition would provide backing from the states for an increase in the national registration levy is absolute nonsense”, Mr Forrest added.

[curious]

Well, that end's that. Sounds like it was mischief from a premier league club or two. I'm betting I know which.

[radinho]

yawn