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Post by Andy on Mar 17, 2007 16:34:20 GMT 10
Yeah, how many stadiums in the top two tiers if English football have standing zones? Off the top of my head I can't think of any.
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Post by LeedsMariner#4 on Mar 17, 2007 16:36:37 GMT 10
i dont think they are allowed
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Post by Andy on Mar 17, 2007 16:40:27 GMT 10
I don't think it will change. This isn't the first time that fans have wanted the rule to change, they;ve been appealing fo 3 years.
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Post by LeedsMariner#4 on Mar 17, 2007 16:43:00 GMT 10
and they will be appealing for many years to come
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Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Mar 17, 2007 17:29:47 GMT 10
in certain respects, it's actually more dangerous to stand in front of seats than on a proper terrace - i think thats the whole reason for the sit down campaign in the uk it's illogical - people want to stand, people will stand, why not build an area where it's safe for them to do so and they don't endanger others. otherwise, people will simply sit silently and any remaining atmosphere will die. and some of what football *is* will die with it. Yeah, how many stadiums in the top two tiers if English football have standing zones? Off the top of my head I can't think of any. cardiff city -   no probs there, though i'd definitely ditch the crush fencing. |
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Post by Foriegnmariner on Mar 17, 2007 17:30:41 GMT 10
Yeah, how many stadiums in the top two tiers if English football have standing zones? Off the top of my head I can't think of any. Watford i think have about 2,000 in standing. |
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Post by Adz on Mar 17, 2007 20:17:29 GMT 10
A standing area would be nice. They could at least trial with bays 15-17 and see how it goes. Doubt that it would happen though.
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Post by Andy on Mar 17, 2007 20:18:48 GMT 10
Yeah, how many stadiums in the top two tiers if English football have standing zones? Off the top of my head I can't think of any. Watford i think have about 2,000 in standing. According to Wikipedia, it's a four stand, all-seated stadium. |
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Post by mariners4ever on Mar 18, 2007 11:09:56 GMT 10
i, too, wouldnt mind a standing area in bay 16 if not bays 15-17 would be fantastic
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Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Apr 2, 2007 15:14:50 GMT 10
Transferring conversation from the thread about the jets' stadium expansion to here... I think it'd be best at this point to clarify where I’m coming from. I don't see existing stadia being modified to create terraces. I simply don't see stadium managers tearing out bays of seats to replace them with terrace fixtures instead. I also think it unlikely that the HISC trust will set up a dedicated terrace for EAS, no matter how much a few hundred of their supporters would love it. where I’m coming from is that where you are going to have people standing and are happy for them to do so (as is the case in parts of all stadia in the a-league) it *would not be unreasonable or unsafe* to allow them to stand on a properly designed terrace. Terraces are associated with all sorts of nasties of the football world - dilapidation, hooliganism and Hillsborough prime amongst them. But this is at best a flawed analysis, at worst a flat out misrepresentation. This is why I raised the MES example - it's a ground with capacity of 17,288 according to austadiums, so it's in the same ballpark as our ground. The northern end would have (at a rough estimate) a capacity of about 4,000 people. This is a very manageable number, in particular when you consider than the space has been designed in such a way that it’s broken up into pockets (there are some 4 lateral blocks – behind the fence, crush bar, crush bar, crush bar), and there are no lateral impediments to prevent people moving along the terrace and thus there’s no way for the sort of crush that happened at Hillsborough to happen there. People simply spread out. This contrasts with the space at our own ground. We pile a couple of hundred people over the capacity of the bay into the bay every week. I hate it up the back because it’s a very tight squeeze (particularly after the now apparently traditional halftime influx) and there’s nowhere to move to. Almost every game I used to wind up with bruising to my upper shins, for ages I couldn’t work out what it was from but I realised it’s being pressed against the seat in front of you. Before I moved down the front, I had bluey-greeny bruises just below my knees for the whole season. When you celebrate a goal you can very easily fall over the seats in front of you (and I’ve done it a number of times). People stand on the seats, sometimes breaking them and costing the stadium and therefore the club money. So I think that terraces are a manageable and appropriate solution to the problem of how best to accommodate the more boisterous fans, but I agree that we’re not going to see it everywhere in a hurry. It simply should be considered as a possibility by stadium managers when they’re expanding a ground and wondering how best to accommodate the likes of us safely and comfortably. |
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Post by gialloblu on Apr 3, 2007 22:00:46 GMT 10
This cuts to the weakness of arguing that terraces shouldn't be brought back because of Hillsborough and Heysel. These disasters occurred, not because of terraces as such, but the poor condition of the terraces. Football up until the 90s was played in decrepit grounds governed by authorities more concerned with crowd control than the welfare of fans and managed by grossly incompetent police (who opened a gate at Hillsborough letting Liverpool fans rush into the ground rather than simply ordering that kick-off be delayed by half an hour which probably would have prevented the disaster).
Football grounds could have been modernised, as they have in Germany, by improving the quality of the concrete and crush bars (and of course removing all perimeter fencing), by having decent ingress/egress within and outside grounds, and making every game all-ticket, so that authorities can place a limit on how many people are in a terrace. This way, grounds would be decent, and tickets (esp in the UK) could be cheaper than they are now.
I agree though that its unrealistic to think that anyone in Australia's going to retrofit a ground with terracing, even though it'd make sense to do it at the northern end of CCS, since we treat it as a terrace anyway, and there'd be no more arguments with people to stand up
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Post by greenpoleffc on Apr 4, 2007 14:47:30 GMT 10
I reckon that they could remove the seats from Bays 14 - 17 from about 1/3 of the way up.
It would only need to be done during the season and people could still sit in the 1st few rows and then terracing above.
Issues with people sitting at the sides but I'm sure some clever engineer could work around it.
I doubt the cost would be immense as it could stay all season before going back to all seater for the NRL who like a nice quiet day out sitting down.
And while I am on my wish list, can we have a roof too :-)
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Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Apr 16, 2007 12:13:24 GMT 10
I reckon that they could remove the seats from Bays 14 - 17 from about 1/3 of the way up. It would only need to be done during the season and people could still sit in the 1st few rows and then terracing above. Issues with people sitting at the sides but I'm sure some clever engineer could work around it. I doubt the cost would be immense as it could stay all season before going back to all seater for the NRL who like a nice quiet day out sitting down. And while I am on my wish list, can we have a roof too :-) i'd do bay 16, and the inner halves of 17 and 15. put a little fence between the seating and terracing, enforce a clear passageway to the two exits, drop in some crushbars at strategic points within the bay to segment the crowd a little, preventing the cascading movement of 100 bodies at once. these things can be done by taking a hole through the concrete and bedding the fence and crushbars in a frame under the concrete - would require a small amount of engineering work to the steel frame holding up the stand. it'd look a bit like this (image is of the allianz arena in munich, opened in 2005 and possibly the most advanced stadium in the world).   for every bay you do, bump up the capacity by a third - 462 seats becomes 616 standing places. that's roughly what we're getting in bay 16 anyway... 2 bays (like my idea above) goes from 924 seats to 1232 standing places. that's as big as we'd ever need (at least in the next 10 years i reckon), and we still have 19,195 seats in the ground - capacity goes up by 308. no seats will mean people will be able to move more freely in the bay, it'd actually be more comfortable. people are all standing, so they might think of actually singing if they're not already. and it's zoned off so you can control numbers in the area effectively by only selling a maximum of 1232 tickets to the area. you'd be able to create a category of membership for it too, so we get in guaranteed, and if demand massively outstrips supply, you do another bay, and another... each row of the existing seats is on a long metal spar, resting on a few bedpoints on the concrete. these *could* be lifted off and stored under the stand, to be replaced at the end of football season, or they could just leave it as is. i don' t know that there'd be any real need to put them back - for RL it's not a high demand spot and there's 19k+ other seats anyway. maybe scavenge the unbroken seats for spares or to get rid of the 'bears' motif and leave it at that. and while we're speculating about things that would never happen, i'd like to also request a roof - a low and dark and menacing steel roof that is tight as a drum and rings like a bell. i want people in woy woy to complain about the noise. |
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Post by Bearinator on Apr 16, 2007 14:51:27 GMT 10
and while we're speculating about things that would never happen, i'd like to also request a roof - a low and dark and menacing steel roof that is tight as a drum and rings like a bell. i want people in woy woy to complain about the noise. And a bar at the back of the bay please  |
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Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Apr 16, 2007 14:56:57 GMT 10
and while we're speculating about things that would never happen, i'd like to also request a roof - a low and dark and menacing steel roof that is tight as a drum and rings like a bell. i want people in woy woy to complain about the noise. And a bar at the back of the bay please blow that - a series of hoses that rise from the steps would be way cooler. you just squeeze to get a squirt of fresh cold beer. one for each person on the terrace. mmm, beer... |
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