Wests vs Storm

[curious]

djgrounsell said:

and I hope we never get a team on the Coast (sorry to those who do but I personally think it would harm the Mariners)

How ?

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

curious said:

djgrounsell said:

and I hope we never get a team on the Coast (sorry to those who do but I personally think it would harm the Mariners)

How ?

by out-competing us for limited sponsorship dollars, and in teh contest over family spending money - arguably every dollar spent on merchandise and tix for a CC NRL team would be a dollar taken from the mariners. we'd be reduced to a smaller slice of a pie that we currently have to ourselves.

there is another argument that says that by improving the exposure of top-line sport on the coast, both clubs could benefit by growing the market. in other words, a smaller slice of a bigger pie might still mean more pie in total...

EDIT - apologies - i redid this post apparently after mick had quoted the original

[marinermick]

dibo said:

curious said:

How ?

by out-competing us for limited sponsorship dollars, and in the contest over family spending money - arguably every dollar spent on merchandise and tix for a CC NRL team would be a dollar taken from the mariners.

that would, by far, be the biggest threat

the mariners could circumvent this by attracting bigger asian multi-nationals - a difficult road to go down

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

marinermick said:

dibo said:

by out-competing us for limited sponsorship dollars, and in the contest over family spending money - arguably every dollar spent on merchandise and tix for a CC NRL team would be a dollar taken from the mariners.

that would, by far, be the biggest threat

the mariners could circumvent this by attracting bigger asian multi-nationals - a difficult road to go down

it's neither unreasonable nor unrealistic to imagine that a CC NRL team would be the top dog straight away - it's still a comp with bigger money and exposure than the a-league, and ad hoc NRL games still consistently draw better crowds than we would hope to do for anything other than a big big match.

i reckon an nrl club on the coast would comfortably average between 13k and 16k crowds, up to sell-outs for derbies against the knights. we're a way off that yet.

it's not admitting any form of defeat to say this either, it's just recognising our place within the sporting market on the coast. we're the top player at the moment, and the central coast rays certainly won't threaten that, but a CCNRL club would go top straight away if they came in.

thankfully, it's unlikely to happen unless a present club falls over and a new one created, because a transplanted club is not going to do as well, and the NRL is happy with the present 16 team format.

[marinermick]

Let's have a look at current major sponsors:

Central Coast - would not occur with a league team on the Coast. Councils and State government would not give so much money to one organisation without giving it to another.
Rebel - organised through Singo's mate Gerry Harvey. Would he give money if distracted by League team (Singo would certainly be involved).
Fortunity - will most likely no renew sponsorship agreement as they used the Mariners sponsorship to introduce themselves in the marketing place. Initial branding strategy will likely be replaced with a period of marketing consolidation.
Arrive Alive - Obviously obtained through political circles and State Government involvement. These types of sponsorships are often given to support tourism in regional areas while still getting the message across. Again, would this money be spent on the Mariners if there was another national team on the Coast.

Dibo, that last point just got me thinking a bit - what involvement does the Mariners have with the labour party? Through Lyall or somewhere else? Is Singo involved with the Labour Party? Neville Wran was special guest at the Mariners Medal Dinner, and they also do well from the State government in terms of these sponsorship deals.

The local liberals of the coast (Holestein, Hartcher, Lloyd, Brookes etc) also seem to be a bit relunctant in associating themselves to the Mariners, or even promoting them in other areas which they readily do for other things.

[dru]

The problem with sponsorship is that it has no real worth unless a company is selling something to the public. Case in point is mining companies, make huge profits but I can only think of one that sponsors any team in australian sport (coal and allied sponsorship of the knights which wasn't even that forth coming), similarly how do you attract the big building companies when they rarely do apartment buildings. these are companies that sponsorship of $1m would be minimal when compared to losses they make on some projects and miniscual when compared to the profits they make.

I know we wanted local sponsors mainly in the begining but surely these companies would benefit from being seen in asia and we'd benefit on the park. The j league when it started was pretty much bank rolled by it's big companies.

instead of thinking locally maybe we need to be thinking globally and chasing some of these companies. but how do we sell the idea of sponsorship to a company that doesn't really sell anything to general public.

[marinermick]

dru said:

but how do we sell the idea of sponsorship to a company that doesn't really sell anything to general public.

Extremely difficult because organisations are now very professional and strategic in how they view their sponsorships. Sponsorship for the large organisations are viewed as part of the overall marketing plan now and not in isolation as in the past.

Sponsorships outcomes have to be tangible and measurable and support the overall objectives of the organisation. A common rule of thumb is that for dollar invested in sponsorship ten has to come back to that organisation. Did Fortunity increase revenue by $1million as a result of the Mariners sponsorship? Has tourism on the Central Coast increased by $3 million as a result of that sponsorship?

I understand why the mining companies would not sponsor anyone - the average Joe who goes to a football game is not their market. Their may be reasons why, Coal and Allied however, sponsor the Knights. They might need to win favout in the community becuase their practices are not environhmentally friendly, they might want to expand in the future and their expansion may impact on the community, etc.

Going for the large, Asian multi-nationals is an extremely difficult process. Do we have the contacts? Do we have the expertise to negotiate in the Asian market? Can we get to the gatekeepers and then the decision makers? Is what we sell all that valuable in that market?

All these barriers are easier to overcome in the local market.

Look at how much difficulty Sydney and Adelaide have had getting sponsors for their ACl campaign.

The multi-nationals may be the pot of gold at the end of rainbow but getting there may require enormous resources or may not be possible.

My view is that one of these multi-nationals will have to fall on their lap or come through another business connection.

Maybe Frank Lowy, with his growing empire in Asia, should be doing some more to get every A-League a major sponsor. he only needs to get eight.

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

marinermick said:

Dibo, that last point just got me thinking a bit - what involvement does the Mariners have with the labour party? Through Lyall or somewhere else? Is Singo involved with the Labour Party? Neville Wran was special guest at the Mariners Medal Dinner, and they also do well from the State government in terms of these sponsorship deals.

The local liberals of the coast (Holestein, Hartcher, Lloyd, Brookes etc) also seem to be a bit relunctant in associating themselves to the Mariners, or even promoting them in other areas which they readily do for other things.

don't really know mate. i think everyone's happy that the mariners are there, and the labor movement has an interest in central coast football through the ETU's sponsorship of the CCFA but that doesn't necessarily translate. craig thomson, the candidate for dobell, organised to spend a bucket of money handing out YR@W stuff and bought a bay of CCBTS for the game against melbourne (i think?) at the end of season 1 through the HSU.

it's fair to say that the labor movement generally is interested and involved as an avenue to publicise their campaign, but that's different to having 'connections' strictly speaking.

nifty nev and grant mcbride are patrons of the club though, so that is pretty cool. there might be a couple of friendly ears in macquarie st, more so than the jets who have more liberal leaning links through remo nogarotto.

EDIT - Belinda Neal (former labor senator and past and present candidate for Robertson, married to nsw Minister for the Central Coast John Della Bosca) is also a club director

EDIT AGAIN - and singo's done countless ALP ad campaigns, and might be doing so again in 07

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

marinermick said:

dru said:

but how do we sell the idea of sponsorship to a company that doesn't really sell anything to general public.

Extremely difficult because organisations are now very professional and strategic in how they view their sponsorships. Sponsorship for the large organisations are viewed as part of the overall marketing plan now and not in isolation as in the past.

Sponsorships outcomes have to be tangible and measurable and support the overall objectives of the organisation. A common rule of thumb is that for dollar invested in sponsorship ten has to come back to that organisation. Did Fortunity increase revenue by $1million as a result of the Mariners sponsorship? Has tourism on the Central Coast increased by $3 million as a result of that sponsorship?

I understand why the mining companies would not sponsor anyone - the average Joe who goes to a football game is not their market. Their may be reasons why, Coal and Allied however, sponsor the Knights. They might need to win favout in the community becuase their practices are not environhmentally friendly, they might want to expand in the future and their expansion may impact on the community, etc.

it's not just increased sales, it's also how much the value of the brand goes up. you might generate $1 million worth of exposure from a season's sponsorship by increasing brand awareness and goodwill, and for existing customers with luck brand loyalty as well. this translates into increased sales down the track, but it's hard to measure.

part of the thing with sport is that if you invest enough to ensure the team does well, you get better exposure through more print photos of your logo on players' kits, more tv footage of your logo in FTA highlights (in a time when people are watching and interested) and especially if the club does well and maintains a good public image you get a halo effect, where their glow shines on you as well.

[curious]

there is another argument that says that by improving the exposure of top-line sport on the coast, both clubs could benefit by growing the market. in other words, a smaller slice of a bigger pie might still mean more pie in total...

I agree with your train of thought.
Football has to head in the direction of large corp. sponsorship to gain the funds for growth. (as opposed to a reliance on funds from local business) Clubs receive national & increasing international exposure with the acl, so the present insular mindset of feeding only a local & regional market will be irrelevant. The CC is a high growth region within a short drive of both Sysney & the Hunter region which points to fantastic potential & I'm sure it's population would love to see sport all year just as they do up & down the highway. The increase to the local economy & political influence it would add to Blue Tongue as an entity, should also be mentioned.

the mariners could circumvent this by attracting bigger asian multi-nationals - a difficult road to go down

Survival in a growing aleague means we will have to regardless. Be it asian dollars or otherwise. However, no fta tv exposure as other codes have, does tend to put us at a disadvantage.

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

this might help attract sponsors:

Rumour: A-League Football on Nine?

A source today claims GTV9 is rife with rumours that A-League soccer will be appearing live on Nine on Saturday afternoons from August.

The tipster claims Football Australia and Fox Sports have signed off on the deal.

Source: www.mediaspy.org/

[brett]

I agree, it's much more complicated than getting $10 back on $1 spent on sponsorship.

The effects of sponsorship are brand awareness and goodwill as dibo said and it's impossible to measure the results on this.

For example, do you think adidas would lose or save money by not giving out the thousands (millions?) of boots to pro players each year but losing that exposure? They would probably save money. But over time, if they don't spend money to keep their name out there, it will fade away and their sales will drop. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Sponsorship is a sort of leap of faith. Part of the overall marketing framework, yes, but not a direct campaign and very difficult to judge results.

[curious]

dibo said:

this might help attract sponsors:

Rumour: A-League Football on Nine?

A source today claims GTV9 is rife with rumours that A-League soccer will be appearing live on Nine on Saturday afternoons from August.

The tipster claims Football Australia and Fox Sports have signed off on the deal.

Source: www.mediaspy.org/

Lets hope there is truth in that. It's the lack of exposure that puts us on the back foot.

[marinermick]

wyomingtiger said:

I agree, it's much more complicated than getting $10 back on $1 spent on sponsorship.

The effects of sponsorship are brand awareness and goodwill as dibo said and it's impossible to measure the results on this.

For example, do you think adidas would lose or save money by not giving out the thousands (millions?) of boots to pro players each year but losing that exposure? They would probably save money. But over time, if they don't spend money to keep their name out there, it will fade away and their sales will drop. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Sponsorship is a sort of leap of faith. Part of the overall marketing framework, yes, but not a direct campaign and very difficult to judge results.

This is why large organisations are going down the road of expenditure that is both strategic and measurable. You can even measure goodwill and brand awareness. If outcomes are not measurable they are unlikely to go down the path.

The "leap of faith" or "sponsor with my heart" model is now becoming irrelevant for organisations becoming more professional in their sponsorship outcomes, and while the 10-1 argument is simplistic at least it is tangible.

Organisations are also increasing their leverage of sponsorship e.g. Masterfoods picnic day before the Sydney match, clappers etc.

[dru]

Would this be a replay from the friday night game? (most likely i think, means foxtel gets it live)

live televised coverage of the saturday night game? (normally a 7pm AEST kick off time)

also a number of rounds as they stand don't have saturady games R3, R8 and R18

would be great but until I see it with my own eyes I'll be sceptical.

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

dru said:

Would this be a replay from the friday night game? (most likely i think, means foxtel gets it live)

live televised coverage of the saturday night game? (normally a 7pm AEST kick off time)

also a number of rounds as they stand don't have saturady games R3, R8 and R18

would be great but until I see it with my own eyes I'll be sceptical.

my guess is a highlights pack/magazine show. they'll want to show highlgihts plus an indepth highlights pack of the pick of the previous week's games. prob put it together on a saturday morning to be up to date with the previous night's match/es, and preview the sat night/sunday games.

[Andy]

dibo said:

dru said:

Would this be a replay from the friday night game? (most likely i think, means foxtel gets it live)

live televised coverage of the saturday night game? (normally a 7pm AEST kick off time)

also a number of rounds as they stand don't have saturady games R3, R8 and R18

would be great but until I see it with my own eyes I'll be sceptical.

my guess is a highlights pack/magazine show. they'll want to show highlgihts plus an indepth highlights pack of the pick of the previous week's games. prob put it together on a saturday morning to be up to date with the previous night's match/es, and preview the sat night/sunday games.

Better than nothing!

[bakery5]

I have seen Holestein at heaps of Mariner games. Also he goes to away games.

marinermick said:

Let's have a look at current major sponsors:

Central Coast - would not occur with a league team on the Coast. Councils and State government would not give so much money to one organisation without giving it to another.
Rebel - organised through Singo's mate Gerry Harvey. Would he give money if distracted by League team (Singo would certainly be involved).
Fortunity - will most likely no renew sponsorship agreement as they used the Mariners sponsorship to introduce themselves in the marketing place. Initial branding strategy will likely be replaced with a period of marketing consolidation.
Arrive Alive - Obviously obtained through political circles and State Government involvement. These types of sponsorships are often given to support tourism in regional areas while still getting the message across. Again, would this money be spent on the Mariners if there was another national team on the Coast.

Dibo, that last point just got me thinking a bit - what involvement does the Mariners have with the labour party? Through Lyall or somewhere else? Is Singo involved with the Labour Party? Neville Wran was special guest at the Mariners Medal Dinner, and they also do well from the State government in terms of these sponsorship deals.

The local liberals of the coast (Holestein, Hartcher, Lloyd, Brookes etc) also seem to be a bit relunctant in associating themselves to the Mariners, or even promoting them in other areas which they readily do for other things.

[marinermick]

bakery5 said:

I have seen Holestein at heaps of Mariner games. Also he goes to away games.

marinermick said:

Let's have a look at current major sponsors:

Central Coast - would not occur with a league team on the Coast. Councils and State government would not give so much money to one organisation without giving it to another.
Rebel - organised through Singo's mate Gerry Harvey. Would he give money if distracted by League team (Singo would certainly be involved).
Fortunity - will most likely no renew sponsorship agreement as they used the Mariners sponsorship to introduce themselves in the marketing place. Initial branding strategy will likely be replaced with a period of marketing consolidation.
Arrive Alive - Obviously obtained through political circles and State Government involvement. These types of sponsorships are often given to support tourism in regional areas while still getting the message across. Again, would this money be spent on the Mariners if there was another national team on the Coast.

Dibo, that last point just got me thinking a bit - what involvement does the Mariners have with the labour party? Through Lyall or somewhere else? Is Singo involved with the Labour Party? Neville Wran was special guest at the Mariners Medal Dinner, and they also do well from the State government in terms of these sponsorship deals.

The local liberals of the coast (Holestein, Hartcher, Lloyd, Brookes etc) also seem to be a bit relunctant in associating themselves to the Mariners, or even promoting them in other areas which they readily do for other things.

he may well go to games, and i know he supports football because he daughter plays on the peninsula, but he is not seen advocating the mariners like he used to with league when a team was mooted on the coast

[bakery5]

the things people do for a few votes