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Post by Sam on Feb 20, 2006 16:46:17 GMT 10
Heff aint been to great of late in his defensive duties but brilliant in attack. I like the idea of wilko playing on the left, Ossie on the right.
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Post by omni on Feb 20, 2006 17:38:49 GMT 10
I actually think he's been doing a much better job in defence recently. The problem of conceding goals was Heff running foward and leaving the gap, he seems to be timing his runs alot better at the moment and he's been making some great saving tackles.
Like most people said, 11 games unbeaten, if it aint broke don't fix it.
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Post by Rubbernose on Feb 20, 2006 20:28:59 GMT 10
Heff's pretty quick though, surely one of the quickest in the comp?
I would say no, I just can't imagine moving Heff from a possie he has scored 9 goals from. One of the things which I love about him playing left back is that not only are his runs forward good value, but teams struggle to pick up left backs who suddenly end up in front of goal, pretty much in the middle.
Confuses the fark out of teams, that. No-one seems to know who's meant to pick him up, and free of a central marker he just pops up all the time and wreaks havoc. If you pushed him into midfield he'd probably get picked up far more often, IMO.
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Post by greenpoleffc on Feb 20, 2006 21:18:42 GMT 10
I think we have a problem on the left and would try a back 4 of:-
RB - Beauchamp CB - Clark CB - O'Grady LB - wilko (best player in the club)
Midfield
RM - Sully CM - Gumps CM - Spenny/MacMaster LM - Heff/Tommy
For - Petrie For - Kwassie
Alternate is no change at the back and Tommy LM.
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Green Pants
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Post by Green Pants on Feb 20, 2006 21:19:12 GMT 10
i agree with rubbernose there.
by pushing up, heff makes himself the extra man in attack. if he was in midfield, he would get marked out.
however, i do think teams are realising the gap heff sometimes leaves, as they have been attacking there alot recently, but most of the time (thankfully) he gets back quick enough. next year is when u experiment with changes like this (heff and wilko swapping sides), not finals.
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Post by omni on Feb 20, 2006 22:13:14 GMT 10
I think Tommy plays much better as a Midfielder so I'd like to see that change made, dare I suggest a diamond 442.
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Post by jonny44 on Feb 21, 2006 6:55:35 GMT 10
Every once in a while I will write in this forum because I cant stand what crap some of you go on about. The last time was the swearing early in the year when a few of you thought it was ok to go on like idoits, now your bagging a player who has been great for the club. Sounds like a few pathetic fans on this thread. The bloke has been scoring and saving goals with some brilliant tackling, he has scored some of the most important goals this season, one game away from the grand final and he is getting rubbished and blamed for goals against. Its embarrasing to have fans like that, keep up the negative talk people it really should help?!?!?
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marinermick
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Post by marinermick on Feb 21, 2006 6:58:33 GMT 10
Every once in a while I will write in this forum because I cant stand what crap some of you go on about. The last time was the swearing early in the year when a few of you thought it was ok to go on like idoits, now your bagging a player who has been great for the club. Sounds like a few pathetic fans on this thread. The bloke has been scoring and saving goals with some brilliant tackling, he has scored some of the most important goals this season, one game away from the grand final and he is getting rubbished and blamed for goals against. Its embarrasing to have fans like that, keep up the negative talk people it really should help?!?!? bugger off you are not "the conscience" of this forum if your english comprehension skills were up to scratch you would have read that no one is bagging anyone out it was a football discussion on how to plug the hole in defence and give hef more room to attack
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Post by jonny44 on Feb 21, 2006 7:29:51 GMT 10
So listing games and goals down a defenders side of the park isnt a bagging? They havent lost in 11 games, his scored and saved goals, what hole are you trying to plug? He doesnt need any more room to attack, its working well. try and relax a lilltle bit mate.
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marinermick
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Post by marinermick on Feb 21, 2006 9:09:59 GMT 10
I sick of this "untouchable" attitude going from fly-by-nights.
Brett copped it a month ago becuase he was brave enough to say his opinions and listed the reasons why.
f***, I was hardly bagging the guy. I stated the reasons why I wanted him in midfield and gave my evidence why I think he should.
If you hang on this forum for any amount of time you would know I have been one of Heff's biggest fan. By hey you don't and choose to take things in isolation.
Again your lack of English comprehension astounds me. Maybe it doesn't becuase the only reason you post here is to act as the "conscience" of this forum.
We don't need a conscience. We need healthy discussions and if we don't improve we are going backwards as all the other teams are improving and becoming more tactical aware.
You talk about us bagging the players but the only reason you come on this forum is to bag us.
So my original statement stands - bugger off.
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striker 9
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Post by striker 9 on Feb 21, 2006 10:14:44 GMT 10
The next two weeks will see both Travis Dodd and Carney terrorising the left side of our defence. Should we move Wilko to left back and put Heff on the right so it will give more space for Heff to go, go, go? I think we should move Heff into wide left instead of Brown and play the 3:5:2 formation.... Danny Wilko Clarky Megzzy Sully Tommy Spenny Gumps Heff Kwas Petrie
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kevrenor
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Post by kevrenor on Feb 21, 2006 10:52:55 GMT 10
I sick of this "untouchable" attitude going from fly-by-nights. Brett copped it a month ago becuase he was brave enough to say his opinions and listed the reasons why. f***, I was hardly bagging the guy. I stated the reasons why I wanted him in midfield and gave my evidence why I think he should. If you hang on this forum for any amount of time you would know I have been one of Heff's biggest fan. By hey you don't and choose to take things in isolation. Again your lack of English comprehension astounds me. Maybe it doesn't becuase the only reason you post here is to act as the "conscience" of this forum. We don't need a conscience. We need healthy discussions and if we don't improve we are going backwards as all the other teams are improving and becoming more tactical aware. You talk about us bagging the players but the only reason you come on this forum is to bag us. So my original statement stands - bugger off. I had to search to determine who MM was talking to here - I believe it was Johhny44! Look, this thread is a nice discussion, debate even, so much better than the harmless twaddle talked about on "Other". I do not agree with MM but will defend his right to be wrong and prove it on this forum! If anyone thinks posts here spout crap you have every right to criticise the ideas, but not to paint every criticism as negative to the club or team! This is not an official club forum, nor is it one for Sycophants Anonymous!
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Post by brett on Feb 21, 2006 11:15:11 GMT 10
Totally agree Mick. This forum has practically no actual football talk and whenever it starts up you get people saying it is taboo to say anything negative about the team.
We're lucky we dont have Richard Money as coach and players like Milicic, Muscat, Corbo etc because I for one would be on here rubbishing every one of them every day. The club belongs to the fans, not the players or coaches, and they play for us. We have every right to criticise.
This thread didn't even do that though. It talked about tactics as to best use our players. If having that discussion makes us pathetic fans then I'd hate to think how many decent fans this club has, or many it will have when we dont have the best coach in the league and the most likeable playing roster in the country.
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Post by Rubbernose on Feb 21, 2006 11:32:36 GMT 10
Everyone loves the Heff, but Mick you wouldn't be the only one to notice that he's probably not the best defender in the side. He's certainly done his fair share of important game saving defending this season, but I reckon he can be a bit ordinary positionally sometimes.
In fact I have no doubt he's best suited to a wingback role with a back 3 so he has far less width to cover and can be more free to go forward, but I do think he's netted so many this year because of the surprise element of him pushing right up to inside left/centre forward, unmarked. It's really not that often left back's find themselves in the positions Heff does. 9 goals from left back is actually quite unbelievable.
I can see merit in a 3-5-2 (particularly against a side like Adelaide) but we'd essentially lose a man in attack, and it probably doesn't play to our strengths, and it'd obviously be changing a winning formula which perhaps isn't wise.
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Post by brett on Feb 21, 2006 11:46:48 GMT 10
The 3-5-2 is what we started with and I reckon we'd still be using it if Mrdja didn't get injured.
I reckon it plays to our strengths PERFECTLY with Tommy and Gumps free to attack at every angle with Spenny sitting in behind them. Heff and Sully/Ossie are perfectly suited to wingback roles because they can all attack and provide the width but do offer something in defensive cover, with all-action dive-in style tackling without a lot of disciplined marking. Wilko Clarky and Meggs are a solid, mobile, tight-marking, super quick back three. It also creates the extra man in midfield which is perfect fr our passing game.
I think we went to 4-4-2 because Tommy had to go to striker and it's just all-round a bit more solid. It would work better if Spencer was more mobile and got into the back line when Meggs or Clark get pulled wide I reckon. I hope to 352 next season.
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Post by Rubbernose on Feb 21, 2006 12:18:51 GMT 10
You make some interesting points WT. Pre-season and the start of the comp we were alternating between the two. I dunno whether Lawrie was doing it to settle on a preferred formation, whether he was adjusting each week according to who we were playing, or whether filling Nicky's hole was a telling factor.
One thing's for sure though and that's that Heff at right back in a 4-4-2 has been a Masterstroke (copyright, Guus Hiddink) by McKinna.
A 3-5-2 may very well suit our central midfield better, and we'd have a very solid back 3, but you do lose a man in attack by way of having 3 central defenders as opposed to 2.
From my experiences a 3-5-2 can make you stronger in the middle but often weaker out wide - either in attack or in defence. Wingbacks will normally get pulled one way or another and need to cover a lot of ground and be very fast and fit, so that certainly suits Heff.
See the difference in the Socceroos' width and attacking prowess after Hiddink switched to a back 4 and threw another man wide against Uruguay as an example.
If a team is only playing 1 striker a back 3 can be somewhat wasteful because they will then focus out wide. Chippers was having a nightmare in the first half.
Both would probably suit our counter attack and ball playing in central midfield though, probably a 3-5-2 a bit more.
I doubt very much that Heff would have scored 9 goals this year if he was playing left wingback in a 3-5-2 though, although I could be wrong.
Next season I'd probably like to see us become more adept and used to playing both formations so we can confidently switch as the situation requires.
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striker 9
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Post by striker 9 on Feb 21, 2006 12:23:54 GMT 10
.............. It would work better if Spencer was more mobile and got into the back line when Meggs or Clark get pulled wide I reckon. I hope to 352 next season. I'm very surprised how Spenny improved lately...and I'm quite sure at Adelaide he'll get back to help the defender a bit more..... nothing is 100% certain, but wait and see and I think we'll play 3:5:2 for most of the game....
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Post by Dan on Feb 21, 2006 13:03:36 GMT 10
Injuries permitting, i would like to see it kept as is, although i certainly feel wilko and Ossie could do the job at left/right backs. There is a lot to be said for familiarity, particularly at this stage and after the run we are on. We are nothing if not a versatile squad, as has been proven time and again.
Hefo is timing his runs better, and all credit to him for getting forward and easing the burden on our striker injuries, but first and foremost he is a defender. Its great to have the pace to recover when caught out, but its best not to have to rely on that. That we have such dependable players at the back with him has also helped cover his runs forward. Im all for experimenting with 5-3-2 again in pre-season tho!
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Post by forzamariners on Feb 21, 2006 13:26:52 GMT 10
Injuries permitting, i would like to see it kept as is, although i certainly feel wilko and Ossie could do the job at left/right backs. There is a lot to be said for familiarity, particularly at this stage and after the run we are on. We are nothing if not a versatile squad, as has been proven time and again. Hefo is timing his runs better, and all credit to him for getting forward and easing the burden on our striker injuries, but first and foremost he is a defender. Its great to have the pace to recover when caught out, but its best not to have to rely on that. That we have such dependable players at the back with him has also helped cover his runs forward. Im all for experimenting with 5-3-2 again in pre-season tho! yeah heff's pace came in very handy as coveny broke twice. leave it as it is
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Post by omni on Feb 21, 2006 14:08:33 GMT 10
the question is are we really game enough to do 'experimenting' 1 game away from the grand final. I can see the arguments for the 3-5-2 formation and I would like to see us use it, I just don't know if I want to see the guys risk a different formation in the next two weeks.
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