Life after Guus

[brett]

Houllier linked with Socceroos
AAP

Olympique Lyon coach Gerard Houllier has been linked with the Socceroos, according to English reports.

Houllier, who won the UEFA Cup with Liverpool, was Football Federation Australia's top target to replace Guus Hiddink after the World Cup, The Sun reported.

Houllier has also been linked with a return to the English Premier League next season, particularly at Newcastle United.

That means Australia may well have to arrange a part-time role for Houllier in the same way it did for PSV Eindhoven coach Hiddink.

Hiddink will take over as coach of Russia after taking charge of the Socceroos at the World Cup.


I like the argument that as nice as it has been with Guus, we dont NEED a coach like him to get us through the Asian Confederation with decent success and qualify for world cups.

I dont know the dollar amounts it would take for Houllier, or to keep Neeskens around, but I think we should sign a dutchman or a frenchman full time to coach the socceroos as well as be technical director for the FFA, and get an aussie in as assistant coach, (Arnold, Kosmina) to be prepared by the TD as future socceroos coach.

To me there is no point in paying loads of dollars to attract a high profile coach, when it's basically overkill, unless they are going to be in this country full time really benefit us with their knowledge. no more european club manager + socceroos on the side!

[Rubbernose]

wyomingtiger said:

I like the argument that as nice as it has been with Guus, we dont NEED a coach like him to get us through the Asian Confederation with decent success and qualify for world cups.

I dont know the dollar amounts it would take for Houllier, or to keep Neeskens around, but I think we should sign a dutchman or a frenchman full time to coach the socceroos as well as be technical director for the FFA, and get an aussie in as assistant coach, (Arnold, Kosmina) to be prepared by the TD as future socceroos coach.

To me there is no point in paying loads of dollars to attract a high profile coach, when it's basically overkill, unless they are going to be in this country full time really benefit us with their knowledge. no more european club manager + socceroos on the side!

I think I agree with you here mate. In the short term, I actually think a Neeskens/Arnold combo would no doubt get the job done in terms of Asian qualifying, for a bargain price.

Thing is, if we want a high profile experienced coach in the Hiddink mold to take us to Sth Africa 2010, it's probably best if he starts building a squad ASAP, ie given a full 4 year period. His worth could be measured 2 years on and there'd still be time to replace him if need be.

I'd lean towards getting a big named, experienced international coach, like perhaps Troussier, and keep Arnold and Neeskens sharing duties on the u/23's, u/20's and u/17's, as well as staying right in the loop of the Socceroos.

[gialloblu]

I think a part-time 'director of football' is the way to go. Get somebody like Troussier, or Scolari (both of whom have expressed an interest in the past) for the job. Keep Neeskens and Arnold as full-time first team managers for the Socceroos.

Neeskens/Arnold can have the close involvement with the team. There'd be a benefit for the Socceroos to have continuity from the Hiddink coaching era. The technical director can oversee all of the Australian national team set-ups, and give a better transition from youth teams to the full national team.

Troussier and Scolari both know how to be successful at the highest levels of the game. They could help the full-time coach/es tactically, and with mental preparation ahead of important matches/tournaments.

[Ursus]

I think we should be looking for an Australian coach for 2010. Lawrie with 4 premierships under his belt would be ideal.
Seriously.
If you had said Arnie was a chance when he was coaching Spirit you would have been certified.
Four years can be a long time.

[brett]

ursus said:

I think we should be looking for an Australian coach for 2010. Lawrie with 4 premierships under his belt would be ideal.
Seriously.
If you had said Arnie was a chance when he was coaching Spirit you would have been certified.
Four years can be a long time.

Depends how you define Australian.

[forzamariners]

[/img]

wyomingtiger said:

ursus said:

I think we should be looking for an Australian coach for 2010. Lawrie with 4 premierships under his belt would be ideal.
Seriously.
If you had said Arnie was a chance when he was coaching Spirit you would have been certified.
Four years can be a long time.

Depends how you define Australian.

Yeah last time i checked Dunfermline wasnt in Australian territory

[kevrenor]

ozbaggie said:

[/img]

wyomingtiger said:

Depends how you define Australian.

Yeah last time i checked Dunfermline wasnt in Australian territory [/quote]

Lawrie came out to play in the NSL when he was mid 20's and has been here for many years, and has learnt ALL his coaching here! Sounds like an Aussie coach to me!

Anyway, according to the government there is no such thing as Australian territory (gratuitous political comment alert!)

Oh, and can I say it again .... "Arnold out!"

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

maybe before he can be an aussie he has to row a surfboat to the australian antarctic territory with his speedos up his clacker?

he's an aussie...



...who talks a bit funny.

och, chuck another prawn on the barbie, and gimme a tinny! i'm dry as a dingo's nuts ye ken.

or maybe not

[Rubbernose]

wyomingtiger said:

Depends how you define Australian.

Apparently it's anyone who adds their name to the list. You'd have to ask Lawrie if he's Australian or Scottish. Or both.

If you did he'd probably crack the shits.

[brett]

Well my question was not meant to offend Lawrie or any other fantastic imported Aussies in the country. It was an honest question regarding the value of having an Aussie coach in the first place.

Basically, what are the reasons to want an Australian coach as opposed to an overseas one, and does someone like Lawrie meet those requirements?

I'd like to have an Aussie coach...because it's the Australian way. We are a proud nation and, particularly sportingly, we do things for ourselves. The general public has fallen in love with Hiddink because of the romance of his achievements with us, but there's no ownership with him. If Neeskens was to take over after the world cup John A. Sportsfan is likely to resume the old philosophy of "Soccer is some other sport for someone else, not me." If we have an Australian coach, our code will gain more ground in the race for national respect, because we have Aussies achieving great things on a truly world stage, as opposed to European 'mercenary' coaches seemingly bought in to teach us how to kick a spherical ball.

Then there is a knowledge of the local game, the structure, the special abilities of Australian players, the demands of the public here, etc etc. All the advantages of selecting a coach that has worked in Australia.

Lawrie has all of those qualities in the second paragraph, and we know him to be a Scotralian, but thrown upon an unsuspecting public, would he been seen as a home grown coach or another European?

So there's a few questions here.
If he got the job, would he be seen as someone the general sporting public of Oz would relate to, and feel ownership of? ie an Australian coach in every facet?
If not, would we just be better off going for a bigger name fully overseas coach?
Why do we actually want an Aussie coach? Local knowledge or respect for our code?

note: I feel bad for using Lawrie as a bit of a guinea pig in this discussion. If he was Socceroos coach it would be an absolute dream come true for me. How good would that be!

[brett]

Les Murray saw this thread and decided to throw his own two cents in

Are we ready for Arnie?
Les Murray

Let’s agree on one thing. Guus Hiddink is a fabulous coach. Why? Because, for one thing, he got Australia in to the World Cup finals, steering the team in negotiating the super-tough hurdle of Uruguay.

That being the case, let’s agree on another thing. Graham Arnold is a fabulous assistant coach. He was a core part of that process and must have played his role impeccably. If he didn’t, what was he doing there?

I raise this because discussion and debate is beginning to hot up over what will happen and who should take the Australia reins when Hiddink moves on to his Russia mission after Germany.

Let’s get to whether the new coach should be another big-name overseas man, or whether it should be the more modest option of a local, like Arnold, later.

First the merits of, and some justice for Arnold.

The man is maligned, unjustly in my view, by those who pre-judge him purely on what he was and did prior to his professional marriage with Hiddink.

It is true that Arnold’s CV as a coach prior to that involvement is no great shakes.

He proved to be decidedly ordinary as a rookie trainer of Northern Spirit, overseeing the demise of that club that saw it attract 16,000 fans per game to one that was lucky to draw a tenth of that. It wasn’t his entire fault, of course, but good, consistent results by the team may have stemmed that disastrous tide.

Then Arnie became assistant national coach to Frank Farina, the start of a long period that was to give him questionable credentials. So long as Farina was successful, so was Arnold.

Farina didn’t succeed and many thought that having hitched his horse to the Farina wagon should have been Arnold’s undoing. Some called for his sacking in tandem with the jettisoning of Farina, arguing that if Farina was to go, so should the rest of his coaching team.

But Arnie survived primarily because his FFA bosses felt some continuity should remain between the work of Farina and the dramatic change that brought in Hiddink.

This made quite some sense.

Hiddink came in to the job with no affinity with Australian footballers save for his admiration, from a good distance, for their reputed professional attitude, fighting powers and work ethic.

Beyond that Hiddink knew little of the players. With barely four months in which to work with them before the cruncher against Uruguay, he needed a man to aid him, an Australian with a link to the past, who knew the Aussie mentality and had a decent psychological and technical profile of the individuals that were to make up the squad he was inheriting.

Arnold was perfect for the job and to keep him on proved to be a masterstroke.

Arnold went on to be a key player in the mission. He advised Hiddink on the individual players, their past performances, their whims, their habits, their emotional strengths and failings. He had a big role in reconnaissance, sizing up the likely South American opponents.

In Buenos Aires, two days before the Aussies were to meet Uruguay across the River Plate in Montevideo, Arnold rattled off the likely Uruguay line-up, a complete mystery to the rest of us. He was spot on, to a man.

The defeat of Uruguay was not just down to the undoubted genius of Guus Hiddink or even the players. It was a team thing. Frank Lowy’s mantra of designing the broadest possible platform for victory was worked to a tee.

The operational, technical and medical support was world class and the mission worked with military precision. The backroom staff, John O’Neill, Matt Carroll, John Boultbee, Ron Smith and Arnold, among a host of others, did fabulous work to make the miracle happen.

Graham Arnold, as Hiddink’s chief confidante, was very much at the centre of it.

The question then is does all that anoint Arnold as superman Hiddink’s natural successor? Many seem to think so including Hiddink, whose view fuels the campaign by a sizable block of public debaters in Australia to have Arnie appointed.

The argument, in its way legitimate, is that it is time we grew up and stayed away from foreign appointments, sending out the message that Australian football believes in itself and is no longer a Third World nation.

The question this argument asks is would Australia’s other high profile national teams, like the Wallabies, the Australian cricket team, our swimming team etc, ever stoop to having a foreign national coach?

The answer is that if those teams were ranked 44th in the world, as Australia’s football team is, they probably would.

And that’s likely what Frank Lowy would say.

And Lowy, a man who thinks big and believes in achieving the unachievable, wants Hiddink replaced by another Hiddink.

That being the case there is no sense in arguing the point. Lowy’s the boss and he’ll do what he wants. Besides, who are we to argue with the man who created the managerial environment that saw Australia achieve what it had not achieved in 32 years?

What made the Hiddink appointment such a masterstroke in retrospect, as Craig Foster argued on SBS recently, was his impeccable set of credentials. He came in to the job with a litany of domestic league titles, a European Cup and World Cup top four places with two different countries.

It is that kind of CV that Lowy will be looking for before he settles on Hiddink’s successor.

Back then to Graham Arnold who has done terrifically well out of his partnership with Hiddink. He is painted with the golden brush of 16 November 2005 and the conquest of Uruguay.

He fell in to a lucky hole landing the role of assisting Hiddink, providing him with a diving board to bigger and better things. He should take his chance and run with it as he well deserves.

But he should not attempt to over-shoot.

The job now at his disposal, coaching the Olyroos in their quest for Beijing 2008, is heaven sent and many Australian coaches would kill for it. If he succeeds it could surely ready him ultimately for the big job he now seeks and already feels prepared for.

Should Arnold, still a young man, steer the Olyroos to Beijing and then have them perform well there, the world will be his oyster and then maybe he will be the hot candidate to take over as coach of the Socceroos after the 2010 World Cup.

Maybe. Maybe in four years time Australia will be ready, or at least readier, to have its national team led by one of its own.

But maybe it won’t. As John Kosmina, our currently most successful locally-bred coach conceded, we might still be ten years away from the time when our coaches have learnt enough to be ready to steer this nation to a World Cup assault.

For the moment Frank Lowy will have his way. As for Graham Arnold, he might feel he’s ready for Australia but Australia, it seems, is not yet ready for him.

[brett]

"The argument, in its way legitimate, is that it is time we grew up and stayed away from foreign appointments, sending out the message that Australian football believes in itself and is no longer a Third World nation.

The question this argument asks is would Australia’s other high profile national teams, like the Wallabies, the Australian cricket team, our swimming team etc, ever stoop to having a foreign national coach? "

That's sorta what I was trying to say. Selecting Lawrie, as Aussie as he is, still mightn't send out that message Les mentions here.

After reading this I'm still undecided though. If Australia is good enough to qualify for the next world cup with basically any coach, (see how we beat Bahrain with our second or third XI and no Hiddink) get an Aussie in there now. If we need another supercoach to keep getting the results we want, let Lowy spend as many $'s as he needs to.

[Ursus]

In my earlier comment I was not having a go at Arnie. I was making the point that a lot can change in 4 years.

I do regard Lawrie as an Australian when you are talking football.
About anything else he is just a great bloke with a great accent.