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Post by curious on Sept 20, 2007 10:46:29 GMT 10
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marinermick
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Coming to Bay 16 Soon
Posts: 8,657
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Post by marinermick on Sept 20, 2007 10:53:51 GMT 10
amazing that they show salaries and you now know why fred moved
imagine if there was a similar list in australian
zdrillic would be laughed at even more
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Post by curious on Sept 20, 2007 11:11:37 GMT 10
From what I have been able to gather, "mlsundergraond" first published a leaked salary list so they decided to do the same offically. To be honest, It's no ones elses business but the players.
The min. salary is atocious for a full time footballer who has no time to earn elsewhere. But that's the US eh.
& yep.....no wonder Fred got on his bike very fast.
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Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Sept 20, 2007 11:22:09 GMT 10
you're looking at median salaries of about AUD50k, a minimum wage of AUD14k (this is more than 10k below our federal minimum wage!) and a salary cap of $2.5 mill across 28 players (average wage is therefore in the order of AUD90k).
note the 40k gap between median and average wage - there's major skewing in there to pay for stars, while heaps of players are on pretty moderate wages.
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Post by curious on Sept 20, 2007 13:12:13 GMT 10
Noticed the gap as well dibo......with the "push" in many circles for imports, if we aren't carefull we will go the same way.
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Post by Rubbernose on Sept 20, 2007 17:52:34 GMT 10
Some of those players with the low salaries are on what the MLS refers to as 'development' rosters. They have two rosters, an 18 player senior roster and a 10 player 'developmental roster' for players under the age of 24. The minimum wage for the senior roster is $28K but the development roster players make a pittance.
See article below:
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Want to play in MLS? Maybe you should think about delivering pizzas. You could probably make more money that way. Kudos to Bob Holtzman for highlighting the difficulties of being a player on a MLS team's developmental roster, and for the Daily Breeze for running two articles on this issue. The second article, focusing on the personal problems these players have, is eye-opening:
"Food before partying, you know?" said Galaxy defender Kyle Veris, a 23-year-old rookie earning $16,500 after being drafted in the second round. "Girls are another struggle. I have to ask Mom and Dad. I tell them I met a girl and need money to take her out."
Players joked about squeezing their last few dollars with meals from special dollar menus at fast food restaurants. Roommates organize trips to the grocery store to maximize their purchases and the Galaxy players eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches available at Home Depot Center for breakfast.
Don't forget about rent. Veris lives in Redondo Beach and his share of the rent, $735 a month, is a good price in this real estate climate. But keep in mind that Veris is paid, after taxes, less than $600 every other week.
"Living expenses are a real issue in more expensive markets," admitted MLS deputy commissioner Ivan Gazidis.
Herculez Gomez struggled with the realities of playing on a developmental roster early in his career with the Galaxy. He slept at his grandmother's one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica, but had to avoid being noticed since she paid less than $300 a month due to rent control and his living there was a violation of her lease.
Money was so tight Gomez would visit different friends and family members at night to eat dinner with them. Laundry became a major chore too.
"I pretty much had to have a closet in my truck," Gomez said. "Other guys had the luxury of going home after practice and relaxing. I had to go and kind of stay away from my grandmother's until night.
"It almost felt like you were visiting a place for a whole year."
League rules on assisting developmental players are murky at best.
"We don't allow our teams to spend money on an apartment complex for developmental players," Gazidis said. "Having said that, our clubs do assist with housing one way or another."
Chivas USA lets players live in a four-bedroom house in Harbor City. Drew Helm lived there for free earlier this summer and Lawson Vaughn wouldn't say if he gets free rent, but confirmed the team does help him out.
The team pays for rent and utilities because team controller Louis Lipson lives there as part of his compensation package. Players are also allowed to stay there, although those stays are supposed to be temporary until they can find more permanent housing. A team official confirmed that occasionally players do stay longer than the league would prefer.
No rent had to help Helm, considering his $11,700 contract qualifies him for food stamps.
Considering that we're talking about one of the most expensive areas in the country, these guys are making a major sacrifice in trying to make it in the league.
That's something the first article linked to raises, while explaining the situation for theams and other factors in the level of pay for players:
MLS rosters are split into two groups -- the 18-player senior roster and a 10-player developmental roster for those under the age of 24. There are no differences in responsibilities, but there are significant differences in pay.
The additional roster spots give more players an opportunity at a low cost for the league, which pays all player salaries. The senior roster minimum is $28,000, while players signed to standard developmental contracts make $11,700 or $16,500, or $5.635 or $7.933 an hour.
It's minor-league pay for Major League Soccer players. Unlike the NBA's D-League or independent league baseball, the MLS season is year-round. That leaves many young MLS players scraping to get by to live their dream.
"I'm doing something a lot of people would die to be doing right now," said Galaxy rookie defender Kyle Veris, who is making $16,500. "If I have to sacrifice a little bit of extra money to get something I don't really need, that's something I have to do."
Veris isn't the only one making the sacrifice. Of the 322 players signed to MLS contracts this season, 76 make less than $20,000, according to a list of league salaries obtained by the Daily Breeze. The national poverty threshold for a single adult is $9,800.
"Developmental contracts are terrible deals for the players who signed them," said Bob Foose, the executive director of the MLS Players' Association.
Not everyone agrees.
"This may sound Scrooge-esque, but as far as the sacrifice they're making, nobody is holding a gun to their head," Galaxy president and general manager Alexi Lalas said. "This is not indentured servitude or slavery."
The original intent was using local players in "practice-type" situations, but that's not how teams perceive the program.
"We try to get the best guy available," D.C. United technical director Dave Kasper said. "Obviously, if the player's hometown is in our metro area or he went to school here, that's an added bonus and could weigh into it. But at the end of the day, we're looking into it as we wanted to get the best available talent we can find."
MLS deputy commissioner Ivan Gazidis compared the program to an internship, with the potential to gain a full-time job.
"We have limited financial resources," Gazidis said. "And we don't want to be closing a door to players who may want to have an opportunity in MLS."
Gazidis noted developmental players are not only willing, but happy to have the chance, "and a growing number of them are succeeding."
Still, these players aren't helped when clubs turn to older players from overseas who can command a higher salary. And you can only imagine how many players--probably the guys on the main roster making a roughly middle-class wage--could get cut if the "Beckham rule" becomes reality.
While Lalas is perfectly right to say that no one is forcing these players to play, you might as well say "no one's forcing them to play soccer". Which is just as accurate, and gets to the bigger issue--this is no way to develop young American talent. Going to a smaller European league makes more sense financially. That takes these players out of the American scene, and doesn't raise the standard of play in MLS, or the national team.
MLS needs to seriously address player development--not just with raising salaries for these guys. They need to realize that the current model is not a pathway to success, and that relying on players coming out of college is a dead-end. Players have to be brought into an organization while they are still teenagers, and clubs need greater independence on deciding how they want to develop them--loaning out to other teams, etc.
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It's fairly ordinary pay and it makes you wonder why a players union would ever agree to it. But there's a lesson there imo for those who call for a national youth league pronto, and that might be that we should perhaps wait till it can be afforded.
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Post by curious on Sept 20, 2007 18:39:14 GMT 10
The development roster is an excuse to have more players on poverty levels to allow more expensive players to be bought at the higher level. The excuses given by the MLS are spin at best, & the US players union is too weak to do anything about it in a country where business thinks a min. wage of $12,000 is acceptable. The lesson to be learned is that if a league encourages that treatment then they don't deserve a league of any kind.
I'd be interested to know how many imports play in their league as I'd imagine the local talent would dry up very, very fast when they can't afford to live. Though it does seem that the MLS & clubs don't give a shite. They will just buy imports.
What has this to do with a youth league here btw?
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Post by Rubbernose on Sept 21, 2007 9:07:37 GMT 10
What has this to do with a youth league here btw? I can see lots of parallels, and lessons for us on how not to do it. That's how the MLS deals with the problem of accommodating a secondary roster of development players, how will we? Our 'youth league' will end up being a development roster too of sorts I suspect, and that highlights the type of money involved should our A-League clubs want to sustain one that is in any way an attractive proposition to players. I think it would be a bad idea to start one for the sake of it, ran on the fumes from an oily rag, and any significant investment in one at this point in times will surely erode the maintenance and growth of the A-League squads' size and salaries. Or I could just be full of shit, that's possible too. |
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Post by Bearinator on Sept 21, 2007 9:33:34 GMT 10
What has this to do with a youth league here btw? I can see lots of parallels, and lessons for us on how not to do it. That's how the MLS deals with the problem of accommodating a secondary roster of development players, how will we? Our 'youth league' will end up being a development roster too of sorts I suspect, and that highlights the type of money involved should our A-League clubs want to sustain one that is in any way an attractive proposition to players. I think it would be a bad idea to start one for the sake of it, ran on the fumes from an oily rag, and any significant investment in one at this point in times will surely erode the maintenance and growth of the A-League squads' size and salaries. Or I could just be full of shit, that's possible too. Why are you all having a cry??? Would you knock back the chance to play for the Central Coast Mariners for $15,000 a year??? Think about it. All away trips paid for. Playing professional football with the countrys best players. The possibility of becoming a star. I would bloody play for free. No, if it were possible, id PAY for the privilege. And you people complain they dont earn enough  |
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Post by curious on Sept 21, 2007 9:47:35 GMT 10
A youth league will be U20's, have amateur status & not be full time players, as was the case with NSL youth. The reason being most of the players will be still at school or tafe & cannot commit full time till their education is completed.
A small payment was made in NSL to help cover expenses incurred.
State league is the same. 1st's are on a salary & the rest are not.
The FFA have stated they will fund a youth league with the majority of costs involved being travel & coaching staff.
As far as having one just for the sake of it, it's for the sake of the future of the Aleague & it's playing roster in the near future. If we didn't install a youth grade for even another several years our young player stocks will dwindle beacuse of lack of development.
We can't expect to develope future aleague players by giving them nothing more than a state league U20's to play in & it's an absolute must to concentrate the best in the country in a single elite league to give them the best development possible & playing the highest level of regular football as possible.
I don't see it as an impost on the aleague, but an important investment in the aleague. The FFA, clubs & coaches see it the same way.
Edit.
Just to add, our laws don't allow an adult 18+ to be paid less than the min. wage which is way above the US model, plus the PFA have an agreement on min. aleague contracted full time player salary. The so called dvelopment wage in the MLS cannot happen under Australian law as it presently stands.
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Post by curious on Sept 21, 2007 10:19:58 GMT 10
I can see lots of parallels, and lessons for us on how not to do it. That's how the MLS deals with the problem of accommodating a secondary roster of development players, how will we? Our 'youth league' will end up being a development roster too of sorts I suspect, and that highlights the type of money involved should our A-League clubs want to sustain one that is in any way an attractive proposition to players. I think it would be a bad idea to start one for the sake of it, ran on the fumes from an oily rag, and any significant investment in one at this point in times will surely erode the maintenance and growth of the A-League squads' size and salaries. Or I could just be full of shit, that's possible too. Why are you all having a cry??? Would you knock back the chance to play for the Central Coast Mariners for $15,000 a year??? Think about it. All away trips paid for. Playing professional football with the countrys best players. The possibility of becoming a star. I would bloody play for free. No, if it were possible, id PAY for the privilege. And you people complain they dont earn enough I very much doubt youth league players will be full time pro bear. However, if they were it's then a business deal & the pay for an under 18 player would have to be commensurate with their 15/16/17 year old wage earning peers as it would be their only means of income. Passion for playing the game doesn't put food in your stomach. |
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Post by Rubbernose on Sept 21, 2007 10:25:28 GMT 10
I see what you're saying and agree but it will need to act as a reserves league as well though curious, as I understand it, because fringe first team players need a league to play in, as well as those returning from injury etc. Not everyone in it will be part time schoolkids.
If that was the case it would probably be misdirected resources to a degree because there is a need for a league somewhere in between the A-League and a youth league, let alone a need for an increase in A-League squad sizes as it is already, plus the added salary cap required to sustain that without existing wages being eroded. The day that there are age levels and structures within each A-League club for youth is surely a long way off, so the whole lot will need to be done with one league.
It's a complex issue and will not be cheap, even if done on the cheap. A million a year per club is the figure I have often heard mentioned by the FFA, and there's still no concensus on what form it should take, and who should play in it.
You can see why the MLS have done what they've done, but it sucks.
And btw, the NSL's youth league wasn't a truly national youth league. It was split into southern and northern divisions and it wasn't that much different to what we have now with the NSW and Vic state leagues, on the whole.
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Post by curious on Sept 21, 2007 11:02:59 GMT 10
Yes, I understand there will be likely 2 senior squad players allowed to "play back" as was the case in NSL. They are already salaried players that won't effect funds.
The present state youth leagues are all that's needed in my opinion (if an aleague youth comp existed) & is a reasonable step for elite youth from that to aleague youth. Age levels not necessary as that is adequate at state level. NSW premier youth league for example & NNSW PYL. Any improvements to the age system can be made at that level.
Yep it does & they only did it because they can get away with it in an inequitable society.
The best youth players from the state leagues were concentrated into an elite comp of a much higher level.
Example, Newcastle United youth squad had the best of the local talent concentrated in one squad, playing at a much higher level than NBN state league youth grade.
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Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Sept 21, 2007 11:10:34 GMT 10
Why are you all having a cry??? Would you knock back the chance to play for the Central Coast Mariners for $15,000 a year??? Think about it. All away trips paid for. Playing professional football with the countrys best players. The possibility of becoming a star. I would bloody play for free. No, if it were possible, id PAY for the privilege. And you people complain they dont earn enough it's not having a cry, it's making sure that our young players don't have to go round to their grannies' houses to get their washing done because they can't afford it otherwise. it's making sure they can afford a place to live. it's making sure that away from the training park they're eating well enough to keep themselves in tip-top shape (it's cheaper to eat shittily than eat well). moreover, if you pay the players well it means that you won't have only those whose families can supplement their incomes getting through. you want every talented kid to have an equal shot at it. the determining factor in whether you go to one of these youth setups shouldn't be whether or not you can afford to be supported by your folks or just put up with it and get by with shitty digs and poor diet etc. it should be your talent, and the rest should be more or less looked after. if we're going to do professionalism properly, we've got to look after the players. |
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Post by curious on Sept 21, 2007 12:16:09 GMT 10
Good point which I should have remembered. I know of many kids that have been forced to forego opportunity in the past beacuse the family couldn't afford to subsidise their football.
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