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Post by Golden Boy on Aug 25, 2005 13:20:05 GMT 10
Is it the top two in the league or the two in the grandfinal who get into the champions league?
I really hope it's league position. I don't really like a final series, but that's the way it's gone. The way I like to think of the finals, to get to sleep at night, is an FFA cup, where only the top four teams gain admission. It's the same thing but looking at it from a different angle which gives the league more credit. At the moment the league is just a 21 round way of finding who goes into the final series. I feel that the league standings at the end of the season are cheapened by having a final series. Furthermore, if the champions league places go to the teams in the grand final the league and league standings would be completely robbed of their prestige. There had better be a huge trophy for what I think is unfairly titled 'the minor' premiership. To end up on top a team has to play very well and consistently over 21 rounds. I think with eight teams all of which could beat any other team, almost, the premiership will be well earned, but will it be recognised as such? So can someone tell me who goes to Asia. And please let it be good news.
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kevrenor
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Keeping the 'surrounding regions' yellow since 2004 ... Be Mariners, be Yellow, be a Marinator!
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Post by kevrenor on Aug 25, 2005 13:30:41 GMT 10
Is it the top two in the league or the two in the grandfinal who get into the champions league? I really hope it's league position. I don't really like a final series, but that's the way it's gone. The way I like to think of the finals, to get to sleep at night, is an FFA cup, where only the top four teams gain admission. It's the same thing but looking at it from a different angle which gives the league more credit. At the moment the league is just a 21 round way of finding who goes into the final series. I feel that the league standings at the end of the season are cheapened by having a final series. Furthermore, if the champions league places go to the teams in the grand final the league and league standings would be completely robbed of their prestige. There had better be a huge trophy for what I think is unfairly titled 'the minor' premiership. To end up on top a team has to play very well and consistently over 21 rounds. I think with eight teams all of which could beat any other team, almost, the premiership will be well earned, but will it be recognised as such? So can someone tell me who goes to Asia. And please let it be good news. Information off the record given to media is that the top 2 at the end of 21 rounds will go, but FFA Ops Manager is now publicly hedging on that! Names have to be with Asia before the final series is complete. I don't know if we will be told until well into the season, once they are more involved administratively with the Asian Confed. At least we should be comfortable - 1st should go, and we are going to be 1st! |
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striker9
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Post by striker9 on Aug 25, 2005 13:45:08 GMT 10
Is it the top two in the league or the two in the grandfinal who get into the champions league? I don't think an 8 team comp warants 2 spots in a champion's league. If you compare the UEFA champion's league. Most have a 20 team comp. the first 2 aure authomatic and the next3 go in the play offs. |
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Post by Golden Boy on Aug 25, 2005 13:47:35 GMT 10
Yeah, I don't doubt that we'll be there. It's just I want the league to mean as much as if not more than the final series and champions league places would help. So would a f*cking big trophy.
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Post by Golden Boy on Aug 25, 2005 13:48:50 GMT 10
I have for a long time thought that only one team made it in. Which does seem more appropriate.
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Post by marinerbhoy on Aug 25, 2005 13:52:32 GMT 10
does anyone know what the financial benefits would be of making the ACL. would it help eleviate the clubs financial problems?
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Post by brett on Aug 25, 2005 13:56:34 GMT 10
Is it the top two in the league or the two in the grandfinal who get into the champions league? I don't think an 8 team comp warants 2 spots in a champion's league. If you compare the UEFA champion's league. Most have a 20 team comp. the first 2 aure authomatic and the next3 go in the play offs. Yeah, in the top 3 countries. Crappy leagues like, i dont know, romania, just get one or two representatives. The A-League's quality warrants having a couple of teams in the ACL. With the even-ness of the league we probably have 5 or 6 teams that could compete in the ACL. So its about spreading the places among the most qualified nations. Golden boy: yeah they havent yet decided how it is going to work as far as i know. The finals series is there in my opinion to lengthen the league season for one, and to create a climax that will create more interest and excitement around the league. Also, fans in the is country arent familiar with the concept of the league leader being champion. they are used to finals series. The minor premiership will mean plenty to the team that gets it. And the finals series is set up so that one of the 2 top placed finishers will definitely be in the grand final, and the other will have an advantage of the others in trying to get there also. I reckon choosing them from the grand final is as fair as from the league. |
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kevrenor
Moderator
Keeping the 'surrounding regions' yellow since 2004 ... Be Mariners, be Yellow, be a Marinator!
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Post by kevrenor on Aug 25, 2005 13:57:25 GMT 10
does anyone know what the financial benefits would be of making the ACL. would it help eleviate the clubs financial problems? Good question! I'll have to take that 'on notice' There would I suspect be some money for taking part and expenses, but it is the chance to pick up big sponsors who see the huge Asian market looming out of the mist on the back of the teams participation, beamed to 2 billion people, which is the big item! |
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Post by Golden Boy on Aug 25, 2005 13:58:08 GMT 10
I don't think anyone would know yet. But it would be good and definitly ease the situation. Depends on how far we go. Semi- final or Final. It's hard to say in this early stage whether we'll win it or not. But we'll be very close. ;D
I wonder how we would go. Anyone here an expert on asian football? Anyone?
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Post by Golden Boy on Aug 25, 2005 14:08:36 GMT 10
WT: Even if the final series is just as fair a way to decide, my point is that the league should be the deciding factor. I wouldn't care if the final series was a fairer way of deciding. I get that some people in the country don't get Premiership winners but this is supposed to be football, but not as we know it.
You say the 'minor' premiership will mean a lot to the team that wins it. It should mean a lot to everyone not just the winners. When historical records are looked upon for the A-league will people just look at the 'major' premiership winners for each season? Or will they give just as much credit to the Premiership winners? I hope the latter, but judging by what you said, and taking you as the archetypal new fan, it will only mean a lot to the team that wins it.
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Post by brett on Aug 25, 2005 14:20:10 GMT 10
With the finals system, There is a significant advantage for each place you get from 5th upwards.
1st gets minor premiership, plus a home semi.
2nd gets to play in the major semi with 1st, therefore a 'second chance' if they lose.
3rd gets to host the minor semi, more chance of winning
4th gets to be in the finals, so it's better than 5th.
So each place is more important than the next.
Add to this the wooden spoon battle and nearly every team should be in a crucial situation right through the season, keeping the crowds coming. With the league format (no finals) if the top two run away with it, the rest of the places mean squat.
It's not like EPL where you have the title race, the champs league places race, the uefa cup places race, 5+ teams battling relegation, not to mention two domestic cups plus euro cups to keep it interesting. throw in some transfer windows and it's pretty exciting stuff.
A flat out 21 round league with only two meaningful finishing spots would be a great way to chase the crowds away.
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Post by brett on Aug 25, 2005 14:24:42 GMT 10
What I was saying about the 'fairness' of the finals deciding ACL places was following on to what i said above. One of the top two HAS to be in the grand final. The other one, aka the loser of the major semi, gets a home play off against the winner of 3rd or 4th, this is the only match that would make the result different from just using the top two league finishers. So if this is a way for an underdog to scrape into the ACL then I think it adds a bit of spice to it.
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Post by Golden Boy on Aug 25, 2005 14:53:28 GMT 10
I understand that they're trying to making it as exciting as possible but that's not what I want to see. I don't want extra spice from undredogs trying to get the CL places. I want a traditional league with a cup. We don't have that so I hope we atleast have the league hold some of it's prestige by determining the CL teams. I know I wouldn't be driven away by a 21 round league title chase. But it seems going by what you say, that the average Australian fan needs alot of non-traditional spicing up of football. Maybe we should have cheerleaders. We could even get out Billy Idol, I hear he loves his footy. It just seems that the football isn't enough, there has to be a decisive match week in week out to hold the attention of the fans. Well, if that is the case, so be it. I want fans to come. But can we hold onto some tradition by having a big trophy for the Premiers. That seems to be the only consilation I'll get. Does anyone get what I'm trying to say?
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Post by brett on Aug 25, 2005 14:56:56 GMT 10
Yes. But you are going to come to every match anyway. They need to please the people that wont always come regardless of what is on offer.
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Post by Golden Boy on Aug 25, 2005 15:18:36 GMT 10
I know. I said that. I don't want to do away with the final series, for it will get in fans. That's what fans seem to want. What I am saying is that league standing, in my opinion, should get more respect than the final series. IMO winning the league will be a harder task than winning the final series. Or atleast a equally difficult, but different task. That's why when in 40 years time I want people to say in the 2011-2012 season Mariners secured their 7th double in a row. As apposed to their 7th grand final win, without any regard for the hard work it took to finish 1st in the league. Or another situation that I dopn't want is for Mariners fans to say to Sydney fans "we won the Premiership 3 years in a row" and for the blingers to retort "yeah, but we won the Final series three years in a row" and think that the latter easily overshadows the former. Which it seems to in the psyche of the Australian public. As is apparent in the titles minor and major premierships.
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The Eugene
Local league player
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Post by The Eugene on Aug 25, 2005 15:51:47 GMT 10
Sorry if this has been covered, but I can't be arsed reading all of the above...
All invited nations get 2 entrants into the ACL - usually the league winner and the cup winner. The nation of the previous season's ACL champion get 3 entrants - the holder plus another 2 clubs.
FFA said that they would like the top 2 for the regular season to go into ACL - this was reported on TWG a few weeks ago. This would also better suit Asia due to the draw and commercial aspects.
For each game a club wins in the group stage, Q/F and semi-final they get approx. $45k
30 players need to be registered by mid-Feb to play in the comp.
The champion gets approx. $625k while the loser of the final gets approx. $375k
I think there is a move to have the prize money divided 70-20-10 between the club, the other 7 clubs and the FFA.
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Post by omni on Aug 25, 2005 21:38:00 GMT 10
30 Players? I sense an issue here. I don't mind it being based on the finals BUT the finals are in March and we need to know buy February, so should be done on 1st & 2nd (or 1st & Mariners should we not fill one of those places  ) |
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Post by brett on Aug 26, 2005 0:03:35 GMT 10
On Total Football it was revealed that place #1 will go to the grand final winner, with place #2 going to either the runner up or the minor premier. I think the minor premier, but if the minor premier is also the champion, the other grand finalist gets it before the second placed league finisher. work that out!
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Post by katsuben on Aug 26, 2005 9:23:16 GMT 10
does anyone know what the financial benefits would be of making the ACL. would it help eleviate the clubs financial problems? Good question! I'll have to take that 'on notice' There would I suspect be some money for taking part and expenses, but it is the chance to pick up big sponsors who see the huge Asian market looming out of the mist on the back of the teams participation, beamed to 2 billion people, which is the big item! Don't forget the sale of TV rights, which will net every participating team a heap of dough. Ticket sales will also get a massive boost. And none of this extra income has been factored into current operating budgets (i.e. $5 million). I don't think it's erroneous to assume that the 2 teams who make it into the ACL will gain a significant financial advantage over the rest of the league (okay, perhaps Sydney already has). They could rapidly become the richest, most well supported clubs. And we might eventually see those teams try to dismantle the salary cap... |
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