Will Dean Heffernan return??

[marinerbhoy]

marinermick said:

ursus said:

I raised the issue of our two strikers being very similar at the presentation night with Lawrie. He disagreed strongly and stated that Nick would be a worker rather than a poacher.

He expects a lot from Nick this year.

I trust Lawrie's judgement and am looking forward to a season of lots of goals.

the perth fans do not agree with this summation and the games i have seen has not altered that opinion for me

but as you said - in lawrie we trust

i dont know how you can already have your judgement on him. he hasnt really played. and when he did last year, he was the only striker and hence alone up front.

if he plays games this season, then pass judgement, but i dont feel anyone has seen him play yet.
and on the perth fans, if one player misses, no doubt they would whinge til the cow came home. if you go on their forum you will see their negativity on almost everything.

they whinged about mitch d'vary(sp?) and he won them titles!

[marinermick]

i have passed that judgement from what i have seen, including watching the old nsl extensively - its my opinion and i feel i have seen him play enough to know what his work rate is like

and you are wrong about being in the lone striker role - in perth he played along side mori or despotovski, in mariners preseason v.1 with petrie and the couple of games last season with mori again

your arguments about not seeing him play is relevant to this whole forum which is pinning all our hopes and title dreams on him being our saviour

and using that same argument if we haven't seen him play properly shouldn't we have a suitable backup instead of playing make shift strikers like we have for the past two seasons?

especially for a player that has not had suitable game time for over three years - the nsl grand final in which he scored the winner was 4 april 2004


he played the super sub role to perfection in perth becuase he came on when the opposition were tired and one which could be ideal for him at the mariners given long hiatus from the game and his body not being 100%

i hope it pays off becasue it is a gamble and given our financial situation probably necessary but it is still a situation that leaves us vulnerable up front if injuries occur

we could easily find ourselves back to v.2 if this occurs

[brett]

But don't you think Mick that it would be a higher priority to sign players in positions where we currently have no class players than in a position that we currently have two class players on a 'just in case' basis?

That's all people are saying.

"your arguments about not seeing him play is relevant to this whole forum which is pinning all our hopes and title dreams on him being our saviour"

Not really. As I said, when we had a finisher in Mori we turned into an unbeatable force. Sasho can provide that same component. Considering we have cut some deadwood and signed Owens + Jedi long-term I think we will improve a lot before Nik is even thrown into the equation.

Yet in saying that, he has shown more than enough potential to be the wildcard that could send us to another level if everything goes right for him. Whether he will or won't can be argued until the A-League kicks off. Having a little faith that he will do well is hardly pinning all our hopes on him.

[marinermick]

wyomingtiger said:

But don't you think Mick that it would be a higher priority to sign players in positions where we currently have no class players than in a position that we currently have two class players on a 'just in case' basis?

I agree that we need to sure up the left side of defence as our biggest priority. Every other position as a "first eleven" in my eyes are covered:

Danny
Clarky Wilko Viddy/Stringers

Kwassy/Owens Mile Gumps/Owens Tommy
[mobile, quick striker] Sasho

Nik to come off the bench initially but if he proves himself to start. As marinerbhoy stated he is an unknown propersition - has the potential but so many doubts. Isn't it healthy to have players fighting for positions?

The only place that this is not occurring at the moment is in the strikers department. It would be fantastic to keep the front two on their toes given the importance of the position and how easily strikers go off the boil.

[serious14]

Tommy on the left wing?? Interesting....... or have you got him as more of the "just in behind the strikers" attacking role??

[marinermick]

serious14 said:

Tommy on the left wing?? Interesting....... or have you got him as more of the "just in behind the strikers" attacking role??

no, left wing

he was awesome there every game he played last season and with kwassy on the other wing we have both pace to burn and skill to beat the lack of outside fullback talent in the league

a newly inspired hutch can also play that position, as can owens, ossie or browny, though browny would be a good left back cover for heff if he signs

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

marinermick said:

serious14 said:

Tommy on the left wing?? Interesting....... or have you got him as more of the "just in behind the strikers" attacking role??

no, left wing

he was awesome there every game he played last season and with kwassy on the other wing we have both pace to burn and skill to beat the lack of outside fullback talent in the league

a newly inspired hutch can also play that position, as can owens, ossie or browny, though browny would be a good left back cover for heff if he signs

all of those players can slide cheeky balls through as well to either find strikers on the head or feet or angle them back for the likes of gumprecht and co to fire home from the perimeter.

[brett]

Clarky struggled at Right back, although he was excellent when he returned at CB, and I would rather sign a player there as well as Heff or a pseudo Heff. After those two positions, THEN whatever funds we have left get the best striker we can, which by that point would likely be a Simon or Holland.

Just my opinion and to each their own!

It's great to have a bit of decent debate around the forum again, well done Mick.

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

wyomingtiger said:

Clarky struggled at Right back, although he was excellent when he returned at CB.

yeah, i prefer clarky in the middle with wilko on the right.

i'd be fairly happy with:
wilko - clarky - stingers - vidmar

for the mids
kwas - gumps - jedi - tommy

and for the strikers
mrdja - sasho

though i reckon we ought to consider a 4-3-3, particularly if we're ever missing gumper:

wilko - clarky - stingers - vidmar
kwas - jedi - hutch
tommy
mrdja sasho

[brett]

Hate that back four. Our best defenders should be in the middle, not on the sides.

My favourite part of Lawrie's management last season was keeping Wilko in the middle. He loves his captains and the defence will be built around Wilko this year.

Clarky should be first back up for anywhere across the back four.

[jazasydneyfc]

If you are to go a falt abck four atm, 4-4-2 doesn't really work for you as the wingers aren't natural.

4-3-3 is more lke it:

--------------------Vukovic

Clark---------Wilko-----Vidmar---------******

--------------------Jedinak
------Pondeljak-----------Gumprecht

-Kwasnik-------Petrovski-----Hutchinson

BENCH:
Trott
OGrady
Owens
Mrdja

[marinermick]

wyomingtiger said:

Hate that back four. Our best defenders should be in the middle, not on the sides.

My favourite part of Lawrie's management last season was keeping Wilko in the middle. He loves his captains and the defence will be built around Wilko this year.

Clarky should be first back up for anywhere across the back four.

and viddy is too slow to play outside fullback

looks his best when he is sweeping and partnering wilko

i think with a full preseason under his belt he may well have an excellent season - he has so much to contribute

[jazasydneyfc]

With the above said, your strength in the CB positions and plethora of versatile attacking midfield options means I still think it's lunacy for you not to go to a back three.

----------------------------------Vukovic

------------------Clark--------Wilkinson-------Vidmar

Owens--------------Jedinak--------Gumprecht--------Heffernan

-----------Kwasnik--------------------------------Pondeljak
--------------------------------Petrovski

BENCH:
Trott
OGrady
Hutchinson/Osman
Mrdja/Hutchinson

Is still your best for mine

[brett]

Viddie is as much of an unknown as Nik, (I'm not expecting 21 rounds out of him) but luckily we have a wealth of talent at CB.

For me, Jaza, it's a diamond, with fullbacks who can overlap for the width (hence Osman). Tommy P plays like Corica atm and drifts into the wide positions when not expected to.

Danny

Ossie Wilko Viddie Heff or pseudo Heff or Browny
- - - - - - Jedi
- Gumps - - - Grego
- - - - - TomP
- - - Sasho - Nik

Bench
Trott
OGrady
Hutch
Kwas

Kwas will do much better next to Nik or Sasho than when he was by himself with all the responsibility. His striking career is not necessarily a throwaway.

[marinermick]

jazasydneyfc said:

With the above said, your strength in the CB positions and plethora of versatile attacking midfield options means I still think it's lunacy for you not to go to a back three.

----------------------------------Vukovic

------------------Clark--------Wilkinson-------Vidmar

Owens--------------Jedinak--------Gumprecht--------Heffernan

-----------Kwasnik--------------------------------Pondeljak
--------------------------------Petrovski

BENCH:
Trott
OGrady
Hutchinson/Osman
Mrdja/Hutchinson

Is still your best for mine

that system would strengthen brett's arguement for another right back

perhaps in that system o'grady for clark

[brett]

jazasydneyfc said:

I still think it's lunacy for you not to go to a back three.

Totally agree

[marinermick]

wyomingtiger said:

jazasydneyfc said:

I still think it's lunacy for you not to go to a back three.

Totally agree

yes, but everytime we have adopted it we have looked vulnerable out wide

[brett]

marinermick said:

perhaps in that system o'grady for clark

A back three requires two pretty mobile players to cover the space behind each wingback. Clark may get therefore get the nod ahead of Og with viddie sweeping.

[jazasydneyfc]

wyomingtiger said:

For me, Jaza, it's a diamond, with fullbacks who can overlap for the width (hence Osman).

I see better now, however still think the defence would be far too shakey. If I were an opposition manager (say SFC) I'd love to line up a 4-3-3 and play in the channels when Osman/Brown go forward (as they inevitably will have to do to provide width).

I still like the 3-4-3, but as with all wingback formations those players are THE keys. To absolutely everything. Heffernan we know could do it, and the ~5rnds that Owens spent in a natural RB role left me with little doubt a RWB role would suit him very well - his engine is good and his crossing was superb at that point.
Also noting the subtle difference in 3-4-3 v.s. 3-5-2. 3-4-3 allows, when under pressure, the wingbacks to drop deeper in to a back 5 and the wide forwards to drop more in to midfield and keep position out wide for proper breakaways and ability to keep shape. A 3-5-2, whilst possible (Tommy P @ #10 with both forwards up front) may put a little too much pressure on the WBs.

DISCLAIMER: I have a broken hand so am struggling to type. I'm also a huge "back 3" advocate at all levels of the game from ~U14s and up.

[DJ]

As the squad is atm imo you would have it looking like :

-------------------------Vukovic
Clark---------Stringers-------Wilko--------Vidmar
Kwas/Owens---Jedi-------Gumps--------Tommy
----------------Sasho-----------Mrdja

IMO we look weakest on the left, and I agree with Brett in that Clarky didn't look like a first choice RB for the full season.

Given whose available (and depending on funds) Eagleton can fill in RB (better option than Clark perhaps?) and I would love to see Heff at LB. Clark and Stringers as cover for CB ain't bad. Redmayne and Holland as our U20's leaves 2 spots after that?