national anthems

[voice of reason]

The measure of how sophisticated a football nation is depends on how it treats the opposition. So that doesn’t say much for Australia when a loud and sustained booing accompanied the Uruguay national anthem at the WCQ. That places us on a par with Turkey, I think. They made the mistake of booing the Swiss national anthem, raising the ire of Sep Blatter, who has now suggested that national anthems should not be played at Internationals.

Not a bad idea as long as it’s not replaced with something like a FIFA anthem…that insipid UEFA champions league anthem is irritating and only serves the commercial interests of the game.

The only time they really work is when the opposing fans have the same anthem, such as at the FA Cup Finals where God Save the Queen is a major part of the whole event.

A lot of respect has gone out of the game. There was a time in England when we used to applaud opposition moves if they were particularly impressive. We rarely booed the opposition (reserving that for our own team usually). OK, it wasn’t all perfect…we also used to shout ‘Roots, Roots’ at our least favourite black players, to our enduring shame…but there’s room for a little more mutual respect. I shall never forget the many Sydney FC fans who applauded the Mariners fans out of Aussie stadium despite our beating them! That’s the sort of respect I mean. So if we’re going to continue booing the anthems let’s ditch them.

The biggest argument for banning national anthems though is to spare the cringing embarrassment I feel when a poor individual is chosen to sing it and has to contend with a faulty microphone, an accompanying crowd who are 3 bars behind or a general disinterest in who they are and what they’re doing there!

[kevrenor]

voice1of1reason said:

The measure of how sophisticated a football nation is depends on how it treats the opposition. So that doesn’t say much for Australia when a loud and sustained booing accompanied the Uruguay national anthem at the WCQ. That places us on a par with Turkey, I think. They made the mistake of booing the Swiss national anthem, raising the ire of Sep Blatter, who has now suggested that national anthems should not be played at Internationals.

Your argument may hold water if the opponent was a sophisticated one too! I have never booed another countries national anthem (OK a few sheep sounds for NZ, and suppressed mumblings at the USA) but on that night last week it was the only thing to do!

Those like Les Murray who say it an obcenity just show that they do not understand that Australian football fans had got to a point where we were - to sort of quote the movie - "mad as hell and we weren't going to take it any more!" It was for all those years of Uruguay disrespecting us - from the Ray Baartz chop in 1973 to 2001 in Montevideo, to the week before at the same place!

If it had been an orchestrated campaign the critics may have a case, but this was organic, like a primeval force arising from the 125 years of Australian football, through the most football cultured crowd ever to assemble in one of our stadiums.

I doubt I will ever boo any anthem again!

The singing of ours was exceptional too - as it was in 1997 at the MCG. The only way to have national anthems is don't get any singer on a microphone mangling it - let the crowd sing!

[dru]

actually both Turkish and swiss fans booed and whistled through each others anthem at the start of the game, so we are also as bad as the swiss and the Uruguay fans who gave us the same treatment in the first leg of the playoff.

a lot of it was frustration and retaliation on the fans behalf, would that crowd boo God save the queen, or the Turkish/swiss national anthem i think not unless the treatment had already been given to us and even then i think it was frustration of losing to them 4 years ago as well.

I hate the idea of not playing the national anthems, it's part of wearing your countries uniform most team sports do it.

I think that good plays by the opposition, at least at club level, are still applauded as they are generally appreciated, something that has happened from a dud decision won't but good play will.

come off it those singers get a buzz from being asked and they know it might go a little wrong and i doubt after the wcq that Jade McCrae regretted singing the national anthem even if 82698 people were three bars behind her.

[glen006]

I can't believe the weak nature of the (majority of the) Australian football public. The Urugauayan team, and they're nation went out of their way on two occasions to make Montevideo as intimidating as possible for Australia in two visits in four years, plus the Ray Baartz chop, which was only the tip of the iceberg in that game by the way.

An article in the SMH suggested the Uruguayans gave our anthem "respectful silence" when it was played over there .. one word to that "BULLSHIT".

I'm sure the centenario would have been booing 10 times louder than Telstra was when the opponents national anthem was played, I see absolutely nothing wrong with how Telstra Stadium behaved on the 16th, if anything I believe it only highlighted the amount of spirit and pride we have in our own country.

Another example of the weakness of our supporters .. we were in bay 117 (next to GGArmy) and along with a couple of other groups were standing .. singing and dancing, and from behind us came cries of SIT DOWN! I'm not going to bore you with the banter that ensued, but I just an't believe anyone would want to SIT DOWN at the most important football match this gme has seen in 31 years.

Thank you and goodnight...

[voice of reason]

kevrenor said:

voice1of1reason said:

The measure of how sophisticated a football nation is depends on how it treats the opposition. So that doesn’t say much for Australia when a loud and sustained booing accompanied the Uruguay national anthem at the WCQ. That places us on a par with Turkey, I think. They made the mistake of booing the Swiss national anthem, raising the ire of Sep Blatter, who has now suggested that national anthems should not be played at Internationals.

Your argument may hold water if the opponent was a sophisticated one too! I have never booed another countries national anthem (OK a few sheep sounds for NZ, and suppressed mumblings at the USA) but on that night last week it was the only thing to do!

Those like Les Murray who say it an obcenity just show that they do not understand that Australian football fans had got to a point where we were - to sort of quote the movie - "mad as hell and we weren't going to take it any more!" It was for all those years of Uruguay disrespecting us - from the Ray Baartz chop in 1973 to 2001 in Montevideo, to the week before at the same place!

If it had been an orchestrated campaign the critics may have a case, but this was organic, like a primeval force arising from the 125 years of Australian football, through the most football cultured crowd ever to assemble in one of our stadiums.

I doubt I will ever boo any anthem again!

The singing of ours was exceptional too - as it was in 1997 at the MCG. The only way to have national anthems is don't get any singer on a microphone mangling it - let the crowd sing!

half of me agrees with you and it was good to see the boys getting tough. They weren't intimidated, they were well prepared mentally and they received a huge boost from the crowd.

But I still think we should treat the other fan and his anthem with respect (sheep sounds excepted). It's a bit like POWs...if you mistreat theirs, they mistreat yours, and we should profer the respect we would like to receive, even if we don't always receive it. Otherwise, where does it stop? Obviously the World Cup Finals will be a different arena with a less partisan crowd and, with the eyes of the football world on us, we can show we're deserving of their notice.

[omni]

I never booed a national anthem in my life until November 16 - no one said to me before hand 'hey let's insult Uruguay and boo their anthem'. They did it to us (aswell as making our players move during our anthem) so I think what's fair is fair. Anyone who says it's disrecepctful, horrible, etc. has no idea how much that game meant to the 83 thousand people there, yes two wrongs don't make a right but maybe 4 do and you know what, just maybe that made the Uruguay players intimidated and helped us win? I'm intregued that more people are whining about booing the anthem then 2 things that would be more valid: the youaregay chants and the flares inside the stadium, but no - we booed the national anthem, what a disgrace. If this was the Bledisloe Cup and the NZ anthem booed noone would care.

Flares are fine just don't boo the opposititon's anthem.

[Pete]

I agree with Omni's and Kevrenor's posts. Voice of reason, the booing was not orchestrated. It just started up and kept on going to a level that really couldn't be avoided. Like others, I booed and with a relish. I have hated the way Uruguay were so contemptious and arrogant towards the officialdom of the two matches by asking for this then that, then this again re: starting times, for asking for Spanish speaking refs in the second leg, and for having let one of their star players go public with a comment that said they hada divine right to the Cup. That and previous campaigns where Australia has been put to the sword, and you can get where I am coming from.
If, on the other hand, there was some respect shown to The Socceroos over the years by Uruguay and a bit of decent sportsmanship both on and off field, then they may have a case over 83000 folks booing their national anthem. I would have loved to have seen a game played in the right spirit and with the buildup all of good intents and pukka cheerio stuff! But the reality was the Uruguayans set this series up as a slimy exercise in bending the rules and got stung by their own medicine.
Like Omni, I find the fact that on the biggest sporting event in Sydney this year, security was NOT able to suss out folks carrying flares in their kits more disconcerting. What if the flares had been something else?
National Anthems must be played wherever 2 national teams meet. It gives the players a sense of perspective about how important the match is. I doubt any player from Australia on 16 November could have avoided being taken up by the huge response to OUR Anthem. It was one hell of a chorus. The other was bad, and not usually what Australia stands for, I agree. But to stand silently throughout may have given the Uruguayans something to work off.
Sepp Blatter may have been offended by the response to the Swiss National Anthem, but my guess is that he's heard it all before. He was more worried about the fracas after the match and the belting some players got ( which was not a good way to represent the game).
Btw, voiceofreason, you started this thread by offering that a sophisticated football nation treats it's opposition well, or words to that effect. If you compare what has happened to Uruguay while they have been here, to what has happened to the Socceroos when they have travelled there, what does that say about Uruguay? So many more years in the world game than Australia, 2 world cups, and they still haven't learnt the basic tenets of sport? Are they slow learners or have they just decided to be cast as slimy, bottom of the Sth American barrel, desperados. ;D

[DJ]

I boo god save the queen all the time!

It's a shit national anthem

England is actually Land of hope ans Glory, UK or Great Britain is God save the waste of space!

[yellowforever]

I agree with Krevenor.

Ive never booed another national anthem, but as I posted in another thread, I WANTED to show the UAREGAYANS my disrespect for their treatment of my team, my national anthem and my country.

Screw'em, I hope everyone of them got the message in their slums on their 34cm tv's in Montevideo, Australians won't accept no shit from you!

Like the others, I probably will never boo an anthem again.

England have Argentina, we have Uruguay. Screw em.

[brett]

Most people have covered it, but my reason for booing is highlighted by what one of the players said. Their guys were kicking and wrestling our players in the tunnel, and their staff were yelling intimidating things in Spanish, and as soon as they got out there and had their anthem booed, they were suddenly a lot quieter.

I didn't do it to disrespect them, or show my contempt. I did it to mentally hinder them so we could win the game.

However, I wouldn't do this to any other country. It's because Aussies don't take shit from anybody. We gave them about 5% of what they have given us over the last 4 years.

[Dan]

At the time i was extremely shocked at the booing - no matter what the reason. But in hindsight i can certainly understand the reasons. Not really my place to comment further.
But on the subject of respect (and a little off topic), how often do you see Real Madrid fans cheering a Barcellona player when they are getting flogged in their own stadium?!?!?
Then again, how often do you see goals like THOSE scored?
Indeed, Bucked-tooth Brazilian genius comes along only twice in a generation. A master of his art.

[yellowforever]

danthefan said:

Then again, how often do you see goals like THOSE scored?
Indeed, Bucked-tooth Brazilian genius comes along only twice in a generation. A master of his art.

I know Im side tracking, but...

Everyone keeps talking about his goal. I missed it.

Anyone know a link where I can see it?

[Auburn Mariner]

I didn't boo them on the night, but I do understand why others did. I don't care very much for the Uru's, and as I say to people when I sledge someone and it comes back to me, you reap what you sow. Basically, we won, they didn't, and that is that.

I think that there are a couple of anthems that are great: "Flower of Scotland" sends shivers down my spine EVERY time; "Star Spangled Banner" is excellent, and "Le Marsellaise" (Not sure if this how you spell it) would be great except the dirty Froggies sing it! Ours is a dirge, and should be replaced by one of "My Island Home", "I am Australian" or "Great Southern Land".

[striker 9]

auburnmariner said:

...... Ours is a dirge, and should be replaced by one of "My Island Home", "I am Australian" or "Great Southern Land".

not waltzing matilda?

[yellowforever]

auburnmariner said:

Ours is a dirge, and should be replaced by one of "My Island Home", "I am Australian" or "Great Southern Land".

I wouldnt replace it full stop. Its not about how good it is, even though its only 60 odd years old, its our tradition.

I wouldnt want Waltzing Matilda, and I hate My Island Home, and GSL is a pub song not an anthem. So it doesnt matter what you have as an anthem someone will always complain. I am Aust, is dirge, a slow boring song.

I'd stick to AAF anyday over the suggestions given. But I'm a patriot.

[Pete]

The debate over the National Anthem happened in the 70s. Initially we had God Save The Queen, then Advance Australia Fair, at one stage I think Waltzing Matilda was about to get the nod, but finally the majority decided upon Advance Australia Fair. Enough is enough leave it as is. It's not the most attractive song, but it's relatively easy to sing (compared to Star Spangled banner which has scales up and down the register all over the place). BTW Star Spangled Banner hasn't sounded the same to me since Jimi took to it with a distorted guitar at Woodstock '69!

[kevrenor]

petethebusdriver said:

The debate over the National Anthem happened in the 70s. Initially we had God Save The Queen, then Advance Australia Fair, at one stage I think Waltzing Matilda was about to get the nod, but finally the majority decided upon Advance Australia Fair.

I voted for Song of Australia, but AAF got up in the vote! It will do!

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

yellowforever said:

I wouldnt want Waltzing Matilda,

me neither. great song, gets up and goes, but a song about a wandering sheep-thief who commits suicide to avoid prosecution is hardly anthem material, unlike la marseillaise (almost had it Auburn), a rousing call to battle and includes references to blood flowing down the streets, etc. that's an anthem and a half!

yellowforever said:

and I hate My Island Home, and GSL is a pub song not an anthem. So it doesnt matter what you have as an anthem someone will always complain. I am Aust, is dirge, a slow boring song.

my island home is far too repetitive, GSL is a pop song (anthems should not have 3-4 choruses), i am australian goes in the waltzing matilda box of national songs rather than anthem material.

when mark seymour and band got up at the WCQ, i was hoping they'd play "throw your arms around me" (as an alternative anthem of sorts), but "holy grail" made more sense.

AAF works, and i particularly like the (never sung outside of primary school assemblies) second verse:

"beneath our radiant southern cross
we'll toil with hearts and hands
to make this commonwealth of ours
renowned of all the lands
for those who've come across the seas
we've boundless plains to share
in spirit let us all combine
to advance Australia fair
in joyful strains then let us sing
advance australia fair"

i reckon that's what the anthem ought to be - emphasising unity, tolerance, welcome, hard work...

tuneless dirge perhaps, but a great verse, and one that taps into what i see as being the essence of what the country ought to be about.

[omni]

Love the French Anthem - the passsion is incredible, and the music behind it just adds to the sense of a battle song. Oh and Flower of Scotland is just fantastic, it's great to hear them belt it out at whatever event they are at the passion it is sung with is great. I know that I'll cop flak for this but I like the Welsh Anthem too it's a great song fantastic music and with the Welsh in it it sounds good. They used it in an AFL ad this season.

I like the 2nd verse too, it is part of the anthem - aparently the original has like 10 verses.

[glen006]

I don't care how bad you all think AAF sounds, it's our national anthem, and it makes me proud to be Aussie every time I hear it, I wouldn't swap it for the world