Coastie
Local league player
Posts: 133
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Post by Coastie on Jun 9, 2007 19:36:11 GMT 10
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Post by dru on Jun 9, 2007 20:56:20 GMT 10
meh, it's a beat up that it's new by the herald as the "problem" has been around for at least 15 years. Youth programs are severely underfunded and in general the youth wants are misunderstood or ignored.
There has never been enough to do on the coast for those under 18, a significant amount of parents commute to Sydney and have no idea whats happening for the 3 hours between when school ends and when they get home. On weekends when they are going to "friends or hanging out parents believe that it's good that there children are social and don't really know whats going on and in cases the children wouldn't tell the truth anyway. Erina is one of the few places there is night time activities for those under 18 so they will congregate there.
Problems: The ease of access to alcohol and drugs should be a big concern and is part of the problem. lack of police numbers. the fact that Aussies are generally throwing themselves into work to try and keep up with the Joneses and are neglecting the family unit. The move away from having the extended family around to help out.
These kids can't vote so the issues won't be addressed by politicians!
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Post by forzamariners on Jun 9, 2007 23:57:21 GMT 10
They should try and live where i live for a week and not go mad with boredom
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Post by omni on Jun 10, 2007 11:12:52 GMT 10
I think Dru has summed it up well, I've been on Gosford City Youth Council for years, and yea very few youths can vote (18-25 by the Government definition) and thus the governments don't really care what we think. I think of the ammount of things that we've petitioned state government to help with (that would benefit everybody not just youth) and they just don't care (not only don't they know youth exist they don't know the coast exists so we were kind of screwed).
The really huge problem is that the Central Coast has one of the highest rates of Youth Suicide in the world, but hey let's worry about the kids that are being bad rather than help the kids that are feeling bad.
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Post by thesandman on Jun 10, 2007 20:25:30 GMT 10
Of course there's a bit of a problem - but doesn't everywhere have problems? Teenagers often think of the coast as a hole with nothing to do. You generally don't realise what a lovely area it is until you're older. Sure, you may still hate it, but at least you learn to appreciate it  In regards to Erina fair - I used to work at the video store that was down on the outside of the Hive a few years back. In summer you get a LOT of teenagers hanging out there. It was reasonably common for fights to occur and the police to be called (then the influx of SUV's as worried mummies picked up their kids ). But really, it's probably one of the safest places for them to go and socialise at night. We certainly do need to address our depression and suicide issues with the youth - but those two issues are almost completely ignored in all aspects of our society. However, our above average rates must be addressed. I'm sure a lot of people from the Peninsula have some idea of what happenes at the Umina skate park - a lot of drinking, and a lot of fighting (probably the same in many other skate parks in isolated areas). Other areas have implemented initiatives to occupy bored youths, but very little seems to be happening here. Something definitely needs to be done about the marauding BMX gangs of 10 year olds who routinely trash many shops along West Street in Umina. But in regards to those kids - and the (generally, but not always) older youths who gang-bash people around here (and other areas) - well, I'm reminded of a lyric from the Streets: "Geezers need excitement If their lives don't provide them they incite violence. Common sense. Simple common sense" It is a pity that so many people can't find ways to occupy themselves that don't involve making other people suffer - but it seems to be a (slightly) peculiar fact of life that the governments are responsible for not provding entertainment, as opposed to the youths being responsible for being criminals. Although, you can't ignore the fact that a lack of things to do DOES seem to contribute to these problems. Although this makes me wonder - what do the youth WANT to do? Are there more things for youths to do in other areas? What are they? I'm inclined to think the 'boredom' excuse is a massive copout used by many, but I'm not ignoring the fact that it probably is genuinely contributing to youth issues. I know of more youths in other areas that start using drugs (including alcohol) and are sexually active at a young age than on the central coast, so I'm a little skeptical at the implied claims that the coast is particularly bad for that. I daresay that the soceioeconomic status of certain areas is definitely contributing to the problem - and that the coast being (allegedly) overrepresented in certain unenviabe statistics may in fact be an inevitable fact of our socioeconomic makeup. Though that's just a though (and no, I'm not trying to say we're all bogans!!). I can't help but wonder if the severe lack of local employment opportunities is a major factor here. We see unemployment rates listed in the paper all the time - how about comparing past and present, near and far YOUTH unemployment rates? Overall, I do think it's a beat-up by SMH and the Central Coast has been unfairly portrayed in an overly negative light - particularly with the picture and comment of the girl engaging in self-harm which has very little to do with the article. |
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Post by T on Jun 10, 2007 23:00:15 GMT 10
The coast has often had a problem with kids being "bored". In the past they used to have the good old blue light discos until they too were banned thanks to drugs and the like. We have some of the best beaches on the coast and many of the same things that they have in Syd. Has it got to the point where kids now need to "be entertained"?
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Post by dru on Jun 11, 2007 8:48:15 GMT 10
Maybe teachers need to give kids more homework over the weekends  <cue howls of anguish> Beaches are great in summer but come winter it's not really where you go. The problem with articles like these is that ignores the majority of kids who aren't doing these things and who do activities. Even they would say there isn't enough to do. The articles also seemed to focus around younger children and I dare say as they get older and get part time jobs they are less likely to be involved. |
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Post by Auburn Mariner on Jun 11, 2007 9:58:30 GMT 10
The Herald articles portray the Coast in a negative light, don't they? Can someone truthfully comment on whether the depiction of what I think is a good shopping centre, Erina, is accurate?
Interesting that the Peninsula cops yet another spray. I had always thought that the Peninsula was a good place. We've had many happy family outings at Ocean, Umina & Ettalong beaches, but time and again (including from locals), this part of the Coast gets criticised heavily.
T, yes, kids HAVE to be entertained. I get my boy Zach every third weekend, and to keep him occupied fully is a real challenge. True, we live in a block of flats in a Sydney slum, so him running around outside in the back yard takes on a whole new dimension. Still, today's kids are a extremely challenging. Merry's younger daughter, now 19, was IMMENSELY diffcult to keep occupied when she wasn't playing sport.
Teenagers in this decade, an era of broadband internet, Mobile Phones, PS 3, Foxtel and the like, say those dreaded words, "Dad, I'm bored" with monotonous regularity.
Importantly, the easy availability of hard drugs like Ecstasy, GHB & Ice is clearly a dreadful choice that our adolescents are using to escape their problems. I plead with all of you, step in and help someone if they on are the hard stuff; don't preach this zero tolerance crap with them, actually making an effort on behalf of an adolescent could make the difference.
I refuse to use the "In my day" speech, as I grew up in the 80's in a country town where EVERYONE played sport, there was no Cable TV, we had 2 free to air stations and the world was a place where kids rode their pushie all over the place. We also didn't have to worry about the threat of scumbag paedophiles preying on us as is sadly the case today.
Perhaps some Community leaders could get together and come up with a program from May 1-Sept 30 of each year, providing the availability of drug and alcohol-free activities for the 12-17 year olds a couple of nights a week.
Maybe some regular film screenings, PS 3 and XBox tournaments, 3-on-3 basketball, 6 a side football (something the Mariners and the Marinators Club could look at), free training in creative programs like InDesign, Photoshop and Dreamweaver, how to make and administer your own websites on Drupal, teaching simple cooking, ANYTHING that is beneficial and keeps people occupied.
Looking for answers and showing Fairfax and News that the Coast is a great place to be seems to be a positive way to deal with these issues.
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Post by gialloblu on Jun 11, 2007 12:28:11 GMT 10
The problem with these articles is that they pick a small and (I think) unrepresentative group of the Coast's population and generalise this group to everyone on the Coast. When I was a teenager on the Coast 10 years ago, you had some kids running amok, but the vast majority didn't, and I'd expect that's the same today.
Also, I don't see how the social issues in the articles are particular to the Coast. Sure, the Coast has some specific issues (like the lack of local jobs and isolation of young people because the area has dispersed residential settlements), but I'd imagine there are similar problems in other places on the fringe of Sydney, like Wollongong, Penrith and Campbelltown.
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Post by T on Jun 11, 2007 18:40:32 GMT 10
Ok, maybe I have a skewed view on the whole "entertainment" issue. I spent most of my teen years in an isolated bush area where there was very little to do on the weekends and the parentals were too busy to entertain us. And it was like that for many of my contemporaries in the area. Instead of turning to drugs and alcohol, which I will admit some did, we actuall formed the first ever Mountains District Womens football team.
To some extent it may be that society has changed to such an extent and I do believe that it is prevalent throughout but the media tend to thrive on "regional areas". I recall there was a similar article about Orange and there have also been ones about Armidale. Having friends who grew up in Penrith I know that the same sort of stuff happens there as well.
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Post by thesandman on Jun 13, 2007 17:57:10 GMT 10
Interesting point T. However, I fear times have changed - these days the focus seems to be on 'provided' entertainment - many homes with multiple computers, gaming consoles, MP3 players, mobile phones which imitate all of the above, Foxtel, DVD players and the growth of the home movie library........Much of what entertains people these days comes from a foreign object, as opposed to running around with a stick and a bicycle rim. Well, maybe not that archaic, but I think that in days gone by we certainly did seem to seek out our own entertainment, whereas these days we simply seek devices to provide for our entertainment. Therefore many people simply aren't as capable of providing their own entertainment, or find it difficult to handle the real world (as all of these devices provide an escape from reality for many hours a day) - which could be why so many turn to violence, hooliganism, and drugs when the provided entertainment is not available or no longer satisfying.
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Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Jun 13, 2007 18:18:50 GMT 10
the story was a beatup.
kids have been bored on the central coast for ages. when i was at school 10+ years ago there were people who would go to parties in hordes with booze etc., but it happened when my parents were kids too.
kids forming gangs and getting in fights? no news there. and like the articles suggest, they get over it. some of the reasons given for getting in fights like defending the name are frankly laughable, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it really happens. but a few kids getting in biffs out of a very large youth population on the coast is a nothing story.
if they want a story, they should talk about the number of people between 18 and 35 who are from the coast and don't live there. they should talk about the number of people who decided they don't want to commute like their folks and instead move closer to study and uni. they should ask questions about why people don't want to live there and can't work there.
i really like the central coast. though i lived in sydney until i was eight (and in total, i've now lived more years in sydney) it was my home for eleven years and in a way it still feels like home. i love the football team. but i can't live there. too fragmented and spread out, not enough jobs, woeful public transport, not enough opportunities to study (because although i've got one degree, i'm thinking about another) and it's much harder to simply pop out and be social in the same way i can in my current neighbourhood.
i might well feel different about the place when i'm 35, but at the moment i've no great desire to move back, and it's got nothing to do with a few adolescents at Erina Fair.
wow - re-reading that, it looks like a self-indulgent whinge and to an extent it is, but there is simply a problem with people of my age-group all f***ing off to live elsewhere because they simply don't want to live on the coast, and it needs to be addressed.
but on simple economic terms there needs to be some effort made to working out how to attract my age group to live on the coast. 18-35s are the demographic of people most likely to have large disposable incomes and minimal financial commitments. we need to entice them to set up on the coast long-term rather than simply have them move there. at the moment they mostly move as mortgage refugees from the rampant sydney property market. when they move, they're head down bum up paying the home loan and their dollars will never see the light of day. sorry to refer to people in terms of the dollars they spend, but for a local economy so reliant on service industries it's really important.
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skilbeck
State League player
aloisi johnny aloisi aloisi he's a mariner
Posts: 321
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Post by skilbeck on Jun 13, 2007 23:28:39 GMT 10
i believe its just an anti-coast bias from the journos. there are many other places in australia with the same problems as us including some sydney suburbs like penrith, campbelltown and sutherland and its generally due to large urban or population growths in a short period of time. this means that young parents of working or middle class backgrounds can find cheap housing to raise their children. if this is happening all too quickly then there is little option for the proper services to grow and as these chlidren grow and mature they will find themselves bored and neglected.
this coupled with a lack of people that one can look up to and be inspired by can create a lack of inspiration for chlidren to make something of themselves in their lives which means they aren't studying, havent got hobbies or aren't taking up sports which creates voids in their lives that can and will be filled with crime, drugs, teen pregnancy etc. it becomes a vicious cycle if this propagates down through the generations. If one does break this cycle, he/she will ditch the place they grew up in forever which doesnt help provide inspiration to the younger generation nor will a skilled or educated workforce develop which can further damage local economies. i agree with dibo above in that there needs to be a way to keep these skilled and educated people around if a community is going to develop along the right track.
certain youth needs will need to be catered for such as providing community based activities for under 18's where they dont have access to alcohol. correct me if im wrong, but the only groups i know that provide such events are some of the churches which doesnt really help those who might not be open to religious dogma. as for erina fair and other shopping centres, it is a reasonably safe place to socialise as it is lighted and is to an extent, supervised. its better to be hanging there than in a local park at night. there also needs to be more of an effort by parents, older friends and siblings to not readily supply alcohol to teenagers as it can cause problems and it is illegal for a reason. drug use is a problem and many teenagers will try them because they are curious and there is no simple set in stone solution for them.
watever problem there is here there isnt a simple fix but many and this thread could last forever with ideas on how to sought out whatever problems there is
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Post by curious on Jun 15, 2007 14:30:55 GMT 10
Not a beat up, just as previous articles/media coverage over many years regarding numerous other regions of the country are not, including recent press coverage of Newcastles grog related problems. (if regular serious bashings & murders can be simply called a "problem')
To anyone of my own generation, the negative change in personal standards, responsibility, accountability, selfishness, arrogance, expectation & empathy in the last few decades can only be seen as enormous.
I think this should be under the heading of "responsibility, accountability, selfishness & expectation".
Kids have all you mention above & more, which by the way, past generations did not, yet still use the age old adage of "I'm Bored", with a learned expectation that dad, mum, school teahers & the community will rush to their sides & wipe their butts. We have even reached a stage where parents & governments to an increasing degree are fobbing off to schools & teachers, the responsibility of teaching kids values, feeding them beakfast & providing after school care. As a teacher friend once commented, "It won't be long before we are bathing them & tucking the little darlings in bed at night".
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Yout parents must be very, very young. 30 years ago pubs used to close at 10pm (it was previously 6pm) & clubs at 1/2am on frid/sat nights & closed on sundays
Partying was done on weekends only & was the exception rather than the rule, other than special occasions. Shops closed at 5pm Mon-fri & mid sat. Cops would question anyone seen on the otherwise empty streets after closing & then send you packing. Things have changed more than you can imagine.
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Why is it now acceptable for underage kids to be anywhere on the streets at night when it wasn't a few decades ago when the streets where a much safer place? My own opinion is it's not.
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Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Jun 15, 2007 15:10:47 GMT 10
Not a beat up, just as previous articles/media coverage over many years regarding numerous other regions of the country are not, including recent press coverage of Newcastles grog related problems. (if regular serious bashings & murders can be simply called a "problem') To anyone of my own generation, the negative change in personal standards, responsibility, accountability, selfishness, arrogance, expectation & empathy in the last few decades can only be seen as enormous. If there's one thing that catches in my craw, it's being told that my generation is not up to scratch compared to previous generations. It's patronising, and given a lack of any constestable evidence beyond the rose coloured glasses of our elders it's also hogwash for all I'm concerned. It's down there with cows were fatter, the sun was warmer and summer lasted forever – entirely the product of human memory which is after all a pretty flawed instrument. The selfishness and arrogance of some baby-boomers right now – those who were educated for free and demand that we now pay, those who bought into property cheaply and now live high on the hog while their kids struggle to rent let alone buy, those who entered a stable and secure job market where you can work on building a career and now think it's ok to slash job security, conditions and remuneration for their kids' generation… We haven't really been set good examples of community focussed and collectively minded living. We have been told from day dot that you're on your own and you have to fight your way through. If you don't have the same rights, you don't have the same obligations. So if Young People These DaysTM seem selfish and uncaring, all I can say is they've learnt from the example set by their elders. Let's also not forget that we're talking about a minority of kids too. There was a 16 year old girl quoted at the end of the second story saying "It's boring, so you pretty much get drunk… …Everyone smokes, everyone's on drugs. I love it, though; I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.". This is actually a load of horseshit. She gets drunk, is bored, smokes, and enjoys it. Frankly, to some extent that's her choice and if she's not harming anyone else then it's up to her (and because she's under 18, her parents also). But just because she's doing it and she says everyone else is, doesn't mean it is the case that every 16 year old is up to that. 99% of 16 year olds on the night this quote would have been taken would have been either at home, at work or with friends not breaking any laws and scaring old people. It's so easy to take a few quotes and make a story out of it, but to actually look beneath the surface and ask a few more serious questions is entirely different. Just because you can tell a story doesn't make it true, and it certainly doesn't make it true for everyone on the coast. Yout parents must be very, very young. 30 years ago pubs used to close at 10pm (it was previously 6pm) & clubs at 1/2am on frid/sat nights & closed on sundays Partying was done on weekends only & was the exception rather than the rule, other than special occasions. Shops closed at 5pm Mon-fri & mid sat. Cops would question anyone seen on the otherwise empty streets after closing & then send you packing. Things have changed more than you can imagine. And people went around to others houses with beers and got loaded back in the day as well. Older brothers and sisters buying booze for younger siblings, loud parties, fights, teenage pregnancies and drug use all existed 'back then' too. It might be a different shape now, but it's the modern incarnation of a generations old dynamic. [/rant] apologies for this being a long angry spleen venting exercise, and nothing personal is meant against anyone whose views I disagree with, it's just that I have some pretty strong views of my own on this issue. |
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Post by Adz on Jun 15, 2007 16:13:32 GMT 10
looks like dibo popped a couple of angry pills with lunch |
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Post by curious on Jun 15, 2007 18:52:06 GMT 10
Just so you don't need a panadol Dibo, I fit none of the preconceptions you have of a typical baby boomer, which by the way, sounds very much like my preconception of a typical right wing liberal party voter. Selfish, arrogant & lacking in empathy. Sounds just like their leader that has set the example in the last decade don't you think?
Fighting words to accuse me of being part of the "Howard Hookers".
My thoughts where you would have seen the above as being critical of the selfish attitiude of far too many parents & the high expectations of kids to gain whatever they wish, which of course, is a product of the parents doing.
Now settle down or I'll have to send you to your room.
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Post by Pete on Jun 15, 2007 19:09:55 GMT 10
I have had a reply typed about 5 times for this thread, but I'm gunna wimp out and congratulate the posters above for having the clarity and guts to put forward their views. (yes I have splinters in my bum  ) |
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Post by omni on Jun 15, 2007 23:28:34 GMT 10
Well it's all about stereotypes in this thread, Curious may be interested to know that I am a young person and the last state election I voted Liberal (in 2 party preferred anyway).
Dibo: I absolutely agree with you about the following the example of elders, youth only learn from the examples they have, look at the cycle of abuse stuff, it's vitally important that people create a good example.
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Post by countryhick on Jun 17, 2007 22:00:35 GMT 10
Lack of social stuff to do? Cant just duck out to be social? Bored? What the hell? There is sooooo much to do down here. I've lived in Gosford for nearly 4 months now, I was born and bred in Tamworth, and moved down here, basically cause it was time to get out and live somewhere else for a change. I commute to Sydney everyday, but the weekends, when I'm on the coast for them (I go back to Tamworth every weekend for a job I still have up there) theres so much to do. I've not had a weekend where theres not been something I haven't been able to do due to a lack of time.
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<cue howls of anguish> 
)