The APEC Wall

[serious14]

Seriously, what is with this APEC security wall bullshit??

I'd post a photo, but I'd no doubt be forced to delete it because I'm doing a recon for weak spots in the fence, or whatever garbage we are letting the government force feed us. That, and I quite simply cannot find one. What I have seen though from my travels into the CBD last week are quite simply Orwell's 1984 come to life. Loudspeakers?? CCTV out the yin yang?? SECURITY CHECKPOINTS?!?

F*** this. You watch for the government (or whoever) to seek to keep their uber police powers after this conference shit is finished, "because they worked so well" or some garbage. We're on the road to becoming a police state, it's just that most people can't see it yet, and they'll only realise before it's too late.

*hopes for a revolutionary style figure to spring up inside the next few years to completely eliminate the shit governments (note the plural) we have now*

*also waits patiently for ASIO to storm my work building for the posting of seditious material*

[marinermick]

A Spy v Spy song has the lyrics:

"If power is blocked in the ballot box then we'll vote it in the open streets"

I think in this APEC case it will be:

"If power is blocked in the open streets then we'll vote it in the ballot box".

Come October/November at least democracy will have made the pains of the last eleven years ease.

[serious14]

It's gotten to that point......

I've been a Liberal voter since I could vote, but I can't justify voting for them this time around. But having said that, I don't see Labour as a viable alternative (I'm rather anti-union, so that cancels them out completely - no one could surely sit there with a straight face and tell me that the Unions won't have at least some sway in the way things go??) The AEC sent me a reminder to re-enrol the other day, I quite frankly couldn't be bothered...... or perhaps my vote (which doesn't really count anyway, the news channels seem to think that exit polls are a stable enough base on which to call an election 2 hours after voting closes) is best wasted on a really minor party running for the senate.

Bah, see what this wall has done?? It's made me angry.

[curious]

Can only hope that eleven years of a gradual rise in conservative force feeding hasn't numbed our memory of what's been lost.
Today's 25 year old was a pimply faced 14 year old when it all started & has known no other Australia in his/her adult life. That's worries me.

[curious]

I quite frankly couldn't be bothered...... or perhaps my vote (which doesn't really count anyway, the news channels seem to think that exit polls are a stable enough base on which to call an election 2 hours after voting closes) is best wasted on a really minor party running for the senate.

Why does your vote count less than any other?

Yes it would be wasted, but that's your democratic right. Nice to have that right isn't it?
As it is democratic right & a basic human right recognised in most nations to be have collective representation in the work place.
Why? Because without the stength of a united front, we are all are castrated weeklings with a lone voice in a lopsided contest.
Just as our justice system is based on the right to legal representation for protection from over zealous law enforcement.

I don't think anyone would knowingly want the present terror leglslation that gives enormous powers to law enforcement & removes basic protections from individuals & the the court system, to creep into criminal & cival law.
But it's happening & seems to fit well with right leaning conservative ethics.
Noticed any push for leglislation of an Australian "Bill of rights" is always quashed by conservatives? Ever wondered why?

It's also conservative ideals to destroy workplace representation for the obvious reason of weakening the workplace strength of a collective group.
Another term or two would go close to achieving that goal.

The IR policy outlined by Labor has weekend the rights of unions to a considerable degree, (enormously compared to 20/30 years ago & rightly so) but retain the human right to collective representation by all individuals.
Never forget that every union is simply a collection of it's individual members, organised by workers for the purpose of their own protection.

Just ask wokers in most nations in this world, what it's like living in a society that allows corperations & governments to hold the whip over an unprotected individual. Union officials or outspoken workers are found in state prisons or go "missing" on a regular basis.
We have to retain a healthy balance for a fair society.
Too many have forgotten that democratic governments are of the people, by the people, for the people. (ok...so I stole it)
That means all the people.

[serious14]

Do you sit in your Babylon-esque tower and read the Communist Manifesto all day??

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

serious14 said:

or perhaps my vote (which doesn't really count anyway, the news channels seem to think that exit polls are a stable enough base on which to call an election 2 hours after voting closes) is best wasted on a really minor party running for the senate.

Your vote counts as much as mine or any other person's.

The 'exit polls' you're referring to are the actual vote totals.

Votes are counted on the night and most booths have their primary totals done by 7.30 or so at night, and their notional 2 candidate preferred totals done by 9 at the latest. The results are then only delayed if it's tight and a swing in the absentees/postals/etc. is enough to swing it one way or another.

Our system is really transparent and really democratic - the elections are clean and free of corruption, they're managed by an independent entity. When the country votes, the country speaks, and your voice counts as much as everyone else’s. And with preferential voting, your vote will always count for *somebody* in the end. If you don’t vote, you can’t whinge about the result.

[marinermick]

dibo said:

serious14 said:

or perhaps my vote (which doesn't really count anyway, the news channels seem to think that exit polls are a stable enough base on which to call an election 2 hours after voting closes) is best wasted on a really minor party running for the senate.

If you don’t vote, you can’t whinge about the result.

amen to that

[serious14]

dibo said:

And with preferential voting, your vote will always count for *somebody* in the end.

Preferential voting is bollocks - I want my vote to go to the person I voted for, and no-one else. Hence I voted for _them_. If I wanted the vote to go to the other guy, I would have voted for him

I know I'll end up voting, I'm too much of a tightarse to pay the fine.

Actually Mr. Dibo, whilst I'm here, what's your go on the wall?? You agree?? Disagree?? Going to be rising up with the proletariat in an effort to tear it down and proclaim us the First Socialist State of Australia??

[marinermick]

serious14 said:

dibo said:

And with preferential voting, your vote will always count for *somebody* in the end.

Preferential voting is bollocks - I want my vote to go to the person I voted for, and no-one else. Hence I voted for _them_. If I wanted the vote to go to the other guy, I would have voted for him

I know I'll end up voting, I'm too much of a tightarse to pay the fine.

Actually Mr. Dibo, whilst I'm here, what's your go on the wall?? You agree?? Disagree?? Going to be rising up with the proletariat in an effort to tear it down and proclaim us the First Socialist State of Australia??

corerct me if i am wrong dibo but if you put a "1" only next to person you want to vote for then no preferences are allocated?

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

marinermick said:

serious14 said:

Preferential voting is bollocks - I want my vote to go to the person I voted for, and no-one else. Hence I voted for _them_. If I wanted the vote to go to the other guy, I would have voted for him

I know I'll end up voting, I'm too much of a tightarse to pay the fine.

Actually Mr. Dibo, whilst I'm here, what's your go on the wall?? You agree?? Disagree?? Going to be rising up with the proletariat in an effort to tear it down and proclaim us the First Socialist State of Australia??

corerct me if i am wrong dibo but if you put a "1" only next to person you want to vote for then no preferences are allocated?

Preferential voting:

There are different systems in place in state and local elections to federal elections.

Federally we have compulsory preferential voting – if you don’t number all the boxes correctly, your vote doesn’t count.

State and Local elections have optional preferential voting – you can number as many or as few as you like, so long as someone gets a 1.

Upper house ballots are slightly more complicated but work on the same principle. Easiest way is to number a box above the line.

Preferential voting means you can say ‘I want to vote Democrat, but I prefer Labor to the Libs’ or similar – it means a vote for a minor party isn’t wasted. You can say what you *want*, while still indicating what you *prefer*. It means spoiler candidates (intentional or otherwise – google “Ralph Nader” and “2000 Presidential Election”) are near impossible.

It also means that you can cast a ‘pox on both our houses’ vote without actually abstaining entirely from the ballot and losing your voice. In the end, as there really are differences between the two major parties, one side will be better than the other.

The wall:

If they wanted to have APEC in Sydney, they should have it here *without* screwing the entire city around with walls and ‘designated’ areas and so on. The risk of a couple of grumpy trots actually causing any problems this week is remote, and it’s not like the police are more than equipped to deal with the problem.

Instead, both state and federal governments have taken the opportunity to rattle the sabre for the sake of populism, simply because dumb trots saying dumb things make anybody sound sensible and even-handed by comparison.

[curious]

serious14 said:

Do you sit in your Babylon-esque tower and read the Communist Manifesto all day??

Not at all. Cummunism & a social conscience, in practice, have as little in common as chalk & cheese. Communism removes an individuals rights in favour of subservience to the the State "good". (State good is bullshit in practice, keeping the little people in their place & the top of town in stawberries n cream.) It never succeeded & never will.

A strong "peoples" party (be it the labor party or the US democrats ect.) & a strong conservative party (be it Libs or the US Republican ect.) is an absolute necessity to maintain the balance of a fair society. Each must be strong in opposition to the other. Without a balnce the scales topple over & examples of this are more common than not.
Imagine how the world would change under another couple of terms under GWB, his religious right leanings & a senate majority? I don't know about you but the thought scares me.

[curious]

It means spoiler candidates (intentional or otherwise – google “Ralph Nader” and “2000 Presidential Election”) are near impossible.

Good point dibo

[curious]

Instead, both state and federal governments have taken the opportunity to rattle the sabre for the sake of populism, simply because dumb trots saying dumb things make anybody sound sensible and even-handed by comparison.

Agree & add that I'm betting the measures in place are by order from the US security agencies. Pandering to their wishes so to speak.

[kevrenor]

What really pisses me off is that it is my generation authorising the setting up of all this. All those of us who thought we'd won through love not war, and marches, and social movements, human rights, etc have been outflanked by our brothers and sisters who spent their time getting into power on both of politics and cared nothing about it all! I spit on them!

Alas our children reject our views (as we did our parents) and fall into the trap of believing their rights are OK! Like hell they are!

End of rant ... I'll just get back into my cheese-cloth shirt, headband, and grow my hair back (well maybe too late for that) and drop out - grey nomads rule!.

[marinermick]

kevrenor said:

What really pisses me off is that it is my generation authorising the setting up of all this. All those of us who thought we'd won through love not war, and marches, and social movements, human rights, etc have been outflanked by our brothers and sisters who spent their time getting into power on both of politics and cared nothing about it all! I spit on them!

Alas our children reject our views (as we did our parents) and fall into the trap of believing their rights are OK! Like hell they are!

End of rant ... I'll just get back into my cheese-cloth shirt, headband, and grow my hair back (well maybe too late for that) and drop out - grey nomads rule!.

don't forgot that your cashed-up generation fuelled the property boom making entry into first home buying practically impossible

in saying that i officially become mortgage free on the last day of october

WOOT

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

marinermick said:

kevrenor said:

What really pisses me off is that it is my generation authorising the setting up of all this. All those of us who thought we'd won through love not war, and marches, and social movements, human rights, etc have been outflanked by our brothers and sisters who spent their time getting into power on both of politics and cared nothing about it all! I spit on them!

Alas our children reject our views (as we did our parents) and fall into the trap of believing their rights are OK! Like hell they are!

End of rant ... I'll just get back into my cheese-cloth shirt, headband, and grow my hair back (well maybe too late for that) and drop out - grey nomads rule!.

don't forgot that your cashed-up generation fuelled the property boom making entry into first home buying practically impossible

in saying that i officially become mortgage free on the last day of october

WOOT

cool news on the mortgage, unfortunately i'm not sure when i'll be able to afford to start a mortgage up... between property prices and my hecs debt sucking up disposable income, buying property seems a long way off...

[unsolicited advice] take the money you would have put into your mortgage and whack it in your super, or in a managed fund. [/unsolicited advice]

[kevrenor]

marinermick said:

don't forgot that your cashed-up generation fuelled the property boom making entry into first home buying practically impossible

in saying that i officially become mortgage free on the last day of october

WOOT

Hey, did I miss out on the cash or something?

I think you'll find the very people I'm spitting on are the cashed up ones! So there's another reason to golly up, eh?

My children are spending not only their inheritance now but my retirement funds!

[marinermick]

dibo said:

marinermick said:

don't forgot that your cashed-up generation fuelled the property boom making entry into first home buying practically impossible

in saying that i officially become mortgage free on the last day of october

WOOT

[unsolicited advice] take the money you would have put into your mortgage and whack it in your super, or in a managed fund. [/unsolicited advice]

already on the case

will keep my mortgage as long as possible as it is cheap money and use the full redraw to invest in other areas

starting to look at property with developmental potential

turnbull here i come

[curious]

I'll just get back into my cheese-cloth shirt, headband, and grow my hair back (well maybe too late for that) and drop out - grey nomads rule!.

I still have all the hair to grow to the shoulders again but would somehow look out of place seeing I spent so much much time & money to dye it grey.

I'm like you mate. I think we both missed the boat as wealthy baby boomers.
BTW....spotted a combie the other day painted up flower power style, full of young ferals. It's still alive....sort of.