Absolutely Disgraceful!!!

[thesandman]

Absolutely f***ing Disgraceful.

And no, I'm not talking about the match.

I'm referring to the conduct of many people in Bays 15/16 - the so-called 'supporter's bays'

If you choose to support a team then you're there through the good times and the bad, for better for worse. You're there to support the players, NO MATTER WHAT. The real test of a person's support is what happens WHEN things start going bad, and tonight many people failed that test miserably. For once, we're not in a final, so suddenly support wasn't so much a major issue.

I was absolutely appalled when a large number - possibly even the majority - of Bay 16 joined in song bagging out Kwassie after he missed that penalty. So f***ing what if he misses a penalty? A penalty ain't a sure thing. He's usually pretty good with the penalties - however that seemed to be conveniently forgotten. When Bay 16 broke out into song putting him down after that, I actually felt ashamed to be a Marinator. Completely unjustified.

Kwassie gets a lot of rough treatment, and highly unfairly. At one stage he put in a great cross across the face of goal only to be abused for missing a shot (never mind the ridiculously small angle he had). Kwassie is a provider, not a striker. He played with a lot more spirit than many players and did a helluva lot more than many players. There is nothing he screwed up that others didn't do the same at other times - even Tommy P managed to destroy an attack or two, yet it's always Kwassie that gets the abuse. Well, personally I thought he was one of the more useful players on the field - far from his best game, but nobody played anywhere near their best game. He maintained pressure down the ring, but pressure on Beltrame, held up the ball in the box when we were outnumbered and was looking for runners to play it to. In the meantime, our other strikers tended to run around aimlessly. Others missed fantastic opportunities at goal, sent crosses or passes straight to Melbourne, mucked up their touches, or ran the ball straight into the defence - yet only Kwassie got abused for it.

But that's all irrelevant - we're here to support the team. Bagging out players like that is NOT ON. At one stage we were bagging out the entire team, and I was dismayed at how quickly support and passion can turn to resentment. Listening to the most dedicated group of 'supporters' show nothing but disgust and disrespect for the team they're supposed to be supporting has been, for me, the lowlight of the entire A-league.

A lot of this abuse also came from one of those with the megaphone. I don't know who had it, but the megaphones are supposed to be leading the bays in support and song, not in abuse. Considering I'm a relative unknown some of you may think I've overstepped the boundaries, but I don't really care.

Special mention goes to the dickhead in Bay 15, around the middle, left hand side, wearing an 05/06 Marinators shirt. After the match, when the Mariners passed by and most of us were standing up clapping, this wanker had no interest whatsoever in showing support or gratitude for the season - his sole purpose was to stand there and yell abuse at Kwassie. Mate, if you're reading this, go give your shit to Vinnie's or something because you're an embarrassment to the yellow. Absolutely disgraceful - you need to take a long, hard look at yourself and what your purposes for turning up to games are.

While the quietness of the bays was understandable, the abuse and bagging out of our own players was absolutely disgraceful. It was very disappointing to see how whole-heartedly the bays participated in that. I always thought we would be passionate in support. Criticise the players on here, but on the day we're there to show support.

I never thought I'd say this, but I felt embarrassed to consider myself a Marinator tonight. I don't even care if I get flamed - all that had to be said.

The amount of negativity coming from the North End tonight cannot be allowed to be repeated. Those who have taken it upon themselves to be somewhat of a leader to Bay 16 should have nipped that in the bud.

I think we should all feel somewhat ashamed to have that rubbish associated with the name Marinators. What I found even more disturbing was that 5 minutes after a song of discouragement, the exact same people were singing 'Marinars till I die'. It seems that people are now putting making a bit of noise above showing support for the team - many people in the North End tonight clearly, were not, 'Mariners till they die'.

I always thought the Marinators would keep themselves above that sort of rubbish that you sometimes hear from other team's supporters.

this is NOT a thread to discuss whether or not Kwassie had a good match or is a good player - there are already threads for that.

[nutmeg]

i agree. i ended yelling at some of the people bagging out Kwassie. he has great ball skills and just because he isn't the best at shooting doesn't mean we should have a go at him. anyone can miss a penalty. if he got it in these people would've been cheering for him.

[greenpoleffc]

Paying customers are allowed to express their opinion, whether you agree with it or not. ALL sporting crowds let their players know if they are unhappy and it is a credit to the Mariners supporters that they have been patient for so much of what has been a pretty disappointing season.

I do agree that after the game, the performance is irrelevant and the players who copped it shouldnt have - but they did and that is someones right if they wish to.

To question anyones loyalty as a supporter and set yourself up as the arbiter of what is acceptable support is just a tad arrogant dont you think??

I am fairly certain that those people that you deem not good enough for you will be there long after all of tonights players will have gone.

[nutmeg]

There is a fine line between letting a player know we're not happy with his performance and outright insulting him because for some reason you carry a missed penalty as a personal wound. He didn't miss it simply to piss you off - get over it.

[thesandman]

My comments posted in yellow becaus I couldn't be bothered playing around with quotes.

greenpoleffc said:

Paying customers are allowed to express their opinion, whether you agree with it or not. ALL sporting crowds let their players know if they are unhappy and it is a credit to the Mariners supporters that they have been patient for so much of what has been a pretty disappointing season.

Just because you have the right to do something, it doesn't mean it's right to do so?

I do agree that after the game, the performance is irrelevant and the players who copped it shouldnt have - but they did and that is someones right if they wish to.
And what's it going to achieve - particularly with players who's main problem is confidence?

To question anyones loyalty as a supporter and set yourself up as the arbiter of what is acceptable support is just a tad arrogant dont you think??
For one, didn't you do the same thing? Two, you just said that you have the right to express your opinion - why do I not have the righ to do the same? I'm not attempting to be our moral guiding star, but I'm entitled to express my opinion and it had to be said. I'm not questioning anybody's loyalty as a supporter per se - simply stating my opinion that a lot of people weren't acting like supporters tonight.
I am fairly certain that those people that you deem not good enough for you will be there long after all of tonights players will have gone. Furthermore, isn't part of the purpose of the Marinators thread is to discuss - and argue - the direction the Marinators are taking?

Not good enough for me? Stop putting words in my mouth. At least address the points I've made instead of making up things then claiming I said them

The one thing I forgot to mention was all the booing of Kwassie before the match - which I also thought was pretty appalling.

[marinermick]

Kwassie was gutted after the match. He was on the verge of tears.

I had a good chat to him and boy was he a shell.

If that was the intention of those who abused Kwassie - well done, you suceeded.

[Chimmi Churri]

..right, the first person to abuse their own player next season is going to get the biggest 'd***head' ing i can muster .

[shelleybeach]

copping a bagging for missing a penalty is harsh I would agree but most supporters would voice their frustration/ anger at how shit their team is everynow and again - if you're a professional get over it.

i don't understand the booing before the match though? that is definitely out of order

[Ursus]

Sandman I agree with you 100%.

Many of those who have been the "leaders" in the "group with no leaders" have started to drift away from the Bay.

Apart from myself no one else has publicly made any statements about moving but then again, as I have shown on this forum, I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve. I stated my reasons for leaving the Bay but the abuse and booing of individuals over the past two weeks has convinced me that I do not want to be part of that scene anymore.

We have been having a bad run lately but take it from someone who followed the North Sydney Bears through the sixties and seventies and Northern Spirit until the death "You aint seen nothin".
If you commit to follow a team you take the thick with the thin. It is one thing to criticise players it is another to abuse and boo.

You may have seen the comment from old Spirit supporters "Still hate the Bob Stand" I am afraid the Bay is developing a similar feel for me. I still have a great many friends there but I cannot stand the teenybopper attitude being in the Bay because it is the place to be mentality. Added to the lack of understanding of what is actually happening on the pitch along with the demands for instant success and the abuse, I am out of here.

Maybe it is time for the old heads to assert some control as I believe happens in the Cove and the Shed. There may still be a chance for it to work but someone has to stand up and organise. Unfortunately I see myself as too old and grumpy and set in my ways to be of much use.

So to all my friends who stay behind good luck, bang a few heads. Next season, I am off to join Pieman and Beefy.

[northernspirit]

i too was disgusted by the actions of some fans, im talking about the ones who screamed out to kwassie "off with your head kwassie"... he may be struggling but he is a human, i know some of u say but he is a professional sportsman and should accept it but you have to draw the line somewhere - it stuffs the atmosphere and divides fans - not good!

[serious14]

A seasons worth of mediocrity came to a head with the worst performance in the clubs short history...... honestly Jason, what did you expect people to do?? Clap us politely off the field and say "well done chaps" - aside from Tommy P (yet again proving just how good he really is), Gumps, Osman, Vidmar, and Simon - no-one really gave a shit, and boy did it show. I believe people are entitled to vent, and I think that the whole "we've taken mediocrity in our stride all season but now we're sick of it" attitude really came out last night, and so it should have. I believe this club _can_ challenge for the title _AND_ the grand final every year, not be battling away to scrape into the four and be embarrased by the other teams. I shudder to think how many Newcastle would have put past us last night.

Kwasnik is mediocre at best and nothing short of an offseason miracle is going to change that. I know that I'm not prepared to accept mediocrity at this club and I don't think any of us should ever adopt that attitude. It really is that simple.......

[Ursus]

"I know that I'm not prepared to accept mediocrity at this club and I don't think any of us should ever adopt that attitude. It really is that simple....... "

Serious 14, No one is suggesting we accept mediocrity.
What I have a problem with is the abuse of players who are potential future champions by so called supporters of this club.
It seems to me there is a very uninformed attitude that we can buy a winning team in one year with limited resources.

These people demand instant success. I suppose many have been led to believe that is their right and if they do not get it someone must be blamed.
One will be constantly disappointed throughout life if that is your attitude.
Building a great team takes time, it does not happen instantly.
Especially in the situation we are in in the A-League. Excellence will be recognised and grabbed by more money overseas. The name of the game here is to recognise future talent and bring it along, get as many games possible and then get a good price. Unfortunately until this league is worth more money that is how it will be.

Contrary to what many on this forum state I do not want us to accept mediocrity nor do I have my head in the sand. We need to encourage talent if it is to develop. Yes, I want to see excellence but do not expect to have Lucas Neil and Mark Viduka signed in the off season.
I am amazed by the number here who will bag Kwassy yet sing the praises of Matty Simon who I believe is yet to show his ability.
Both need a chance to develop. The thing that absolutely sickens me is that I have followed Kwassy since his time at Spirit and had my doubts about his ability. This year he has shown remarkable improvements in his fitness, his anticipation, his heart and determination. Yet he not only gets his abilities questioned he gets bagged and abused by a lot of armchair experts who give nothing but criticism.

Think about what the club has asked from him this year and look at how he has responded. What most see is somone hitting the shots all over the park and taking wrong options.
I see someone who has lifted themselves shown commitment and with some coaching the ability to go far.
I hope all these "supporters" do not turn on Matty when he does not deliver in year 1.

Because of this building process many clubs will go through seasonal variations. An example is Melbourne. I am sure many on this forum would have got rid of Merrick and Allsop. Anyone who has followed sport of any variety must see that stability is essential for success.
Players will be given a chance the important thing is to recognise talent that can be developed. I still think Lawrie's biggest mistake was missing Milligan. I will happily argue the merits of a players ability but do not see the need to sink to the levels this forum and Bay 16 has.

However back to the thread. Yesterday the team played like shit and it has been a disappointing season.
BUT it did not warrant the disgusting display by many so called supporters. No one is asking you to clap if you do not want to.

I am sure there are many here (maybe not the newbies) who remember the disgusting display the team gave against Adelaide last year.
When the team came into the bowlo after the game there was not the usual singing just a lot of unnatural silence. One of the players was heard to comment "I do not think they are impressed with that performance".
Very effective, message understood.

No accepts mediocrity but the kind of uncalled for abuse I heard will destroy this club. Hopefully in the near future we will have a youth team where players will have the opportunity to develop and show their wares rather than be thrown in the deep end and be expected to perform immediately.

Think about it.

[serious14]

Hahahaha, don't worry Ursus, I'm not at all suggesting we do a Chelsea and buy all the talent around the place..... I just don't see all this potential that Kwasnik is supposed to have. I see _some_ skills, but I can't see the sort of consistency that is needed to succeed at this level - not yet anyway. I think a spell back in the State League might do the boy some good, if only to get his confidence back up.

As for the abuse?? I'm pretty sure it gets a lot worse than this in Europe and South America...... perhaps the honesty of these people might make the players go "wow, we were rubbish". Anything to get the message through, because if that attitude that was displayed yesterday by all (except Tommy, Andre, Osman, and Simon) is indicative of how the players are approaching the game, then next season might be a long one as well.

That, and we _sorely_ need some strikers. Good ones. Or Mrdja to get of his lazy f*cking arse and stop dicking us all around.

[dibo (pron. "DIB-OH")]

top post ursus! agree 100%

[keensy]

Cant agree more with Ursus.

Bay 16 is wearing thin for myself lately aswell because of all the bandwagoner dickheads who dont want to support the side and just constantly throw abuse at kwassie for things he does but then cannot hear a peep out of them when another play does the EXACT same thing.

[Bearinator]

1 player cops some shit, and we get all this as a response. I cant believe this.

Only a short plane trip away Coventry fans we singing "Were shittttttt, and weve hade enough. Were shitttttt, and weve had enough" at the way there team and coach had been performing. I cant imagine what would happen if the boys play this shit for another whole season.

[sideshow]

if they played like that in my backyard, i'd close the curtains.

[bj]

Well, being a Newcastle Knights fan as well, I can tell you that from being part of a supporter base widely regarded as the best in the NRL, there is one key thing about cheering the team on: We understand that the team can't and won't win every game they play, that's acceptable and we will support them through that. What is not acceptable, though, is when the team is not putting in an effort and is getting done by the opposition. That is when the fans are allowed to heckle the team and tell them what they think of their inept performance.

Last night when Adelaide scored to make it 3-0, I stood up and pulled my Mariners shirt off to symbolise how disgusted I was with the teams' performance. Sure Adelaide were the better team on the night, but the way the Mariners just trailed around the field was woeful- especially that last goal scored by Adelaide. As a fan, I pay money so see my teams put in their best every weekend, not lay back and take a beating like that. Flash-back to last year, even when the Mariners were a goal down I'd never get to worried because I knew the team would work together and they could find a goal of their own. These days (and especially the last few games) it's as if the team goes "Well, that's our night done then" and reverts to playing hot potato with the ball. If the players can't be bothered doing their best for the team for for the fans, then why should we give them our best? I'm sure that's what alot of us in the Northern Concourse were thinking last night.

[Ursus]

I kew a lot of these posts were coming from Newcastle fans in disguise.

[bj]

You accusing Knights fans of being bandwagoners? Mate, in the first half of 2005, I got a taste of what it must have been like being a Norths fan in the 60's and 70's.