|
Post by DJ on Oct 3, 2005 22:22:01 GMT 10
i have to agree with the "tits out for the boys" point made. i am pretty sure thats the main reason for the marinettes starting up. be assured it has nothing to do with the marinettes. but this is what I say. Dont blame us for making 'gay' calls a common substitute for a generic insult. If a homosexual wanted to join the marinators, i would have no problem with it and would have a beer with the bloke like any other. Calling the ref gay has nothing to do with sexuality, it's just like calling him a dickhead, or an arsehole, or a moron, or whatever else. Dont try make it more political than it is! Tits out for the boys? This one is a bit tougher, but I think I have to defend it. NOT because I think women are objects. NOT because I think they would or should ever actually go ahead with it. It's good for a laugh, and it takes the piss, I think the girls that do take it the right way (particularly ones that yelling dicks out for the girls) know this. It's like calling auburn fat, or me an ugly little rake man, or singing at the celebrity lookalikes: making jokes against the minorities. girls happen to be a minority in our group so it's like giving them some stick for sitting with the boys, even though they are more than welcome. Blame TV and magazines for objectifying women and making saying tits out for the boys acceptable if you want to blame someone! racist calls arent on and have never been supported or sang en masse. worded very well WT
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Oct 3, 2005 22:23:46 GMT 10
For crying out loud! Why don't we form the Marinators church choir and sing hymns, it's the only way we are gonna please some people! We are at a football match not singing chritmas friggin' carols! I agree DJ. Way way waaaaaaayyy to much analysis going on here Bay 16. Love it or leave it. Dance. Laugh. Sing. Simple.
|
|
|
Post by Auburn Mariner on Oct 3, 2005 22:32:44 GMT 10
I was next to the bloke who sang about Archie, and it went down like a lead balloon. Self-regulation works.
If anyone thinks we are intimidating, ask some of the NSL fans about games involving Sydney Croatia, Preston Macedonia, Marconi, etc. We are so tame it is not funny.
Ask Sacko or Red about going to the Den, or Elland Road, then compare us. That thug Muscat played for Millwall; enough said.
Bay 16 is great fun, it's a real weapon for our team (look at the way they treat us after games), so creating PC rules won't wash, I'm afraid.
Dibo, racism sux, I totally agree, but making innocent fun of people is part of life. Yorke has a list of female conquests as long my arm, so calling him a poof is hardly homophobic. I'm sorry your lady was offended by some of the calls, but my wife is coming to the next game and I have NO intention of backing off one bit.
Bay 16 is my turf, and if any of my family want to attend games, then if they are with me, they play by my rules. That includes hearing me get sledged for being a beached whale!!
|
|
|
Post by Lozzapool on Oct 3, 2005 22:33:04 GMT 10
Bay 16. Love it or leave it. Dance. Laugh. Sing. Simple. nicely said
|
|
|
Post by Fish on Oct 3, 2005 22:37:03 GMT 10
Dibo I appreciate your view as we all do but its something(the language) we are never going to stop and like the others if it aint you dont sit in the mix sit either side(hope you dont though mate)Spoke to a few mums and dads last week asked them if they had any issues with us and the general consensus was "we are great"yes weve had a few instances in the past with the language but to be fair we are lads at a football game and are bloody passionate about our team.
|
|
lensman
Local league player
Posts: 85
|
Post by lensman on Oct 3, 2005 22:49:27 GMT 10
The "tits out for the lad's" has been around since day dot. anyone that feels intimidated by this call shouds take alook at themselves. If I said 'jump of the Mcgowan bridge" would you do it " NO '. If the tits call upsets you than you are deep down wanting to do it, but want tell anyone. Take a chill pill and roll the chants.
|
|
lensman
Local league player
Posts: 85
|
Post by lensman on Oct 3, 2005 23:51:09 GMT 10
The next person to questions the Marinators chants, we say
GO TO OPHRA, GO TO OPHRA
This is the JERRY SPRINGER SHOW.
|
|
lensman
Local league player
Posts: 85
|
Post by lensman on Oct 3, 2005 23:56:29 GMT 10
I feel that Dibo has realized that we are all here for a good time not a ' political correct time' as he has not responed to any replys. You hear and watch more porn on 'Blue Heelers" than a Mariners game. Plase tell me you can't be serious.
|
|
|
Post by Adz on Oct 4, 2005 1:29:43 GMT 10
*note to self: watch Blue Heelers
|
|
|
Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Oct 4, 2005 9:00:23 GMT 10
I feel that Dibo has realized that we are all here for a good time not a ' political correct time' as he has not responed to any replys. You hear and watch more porn on 'Blue Heelers" than a Mariners game. Plase tell me you can't be serious. i flew to canberra last night and have only just come by a computer again, so that's the reason behind my not responding until now. my main point is that i'm not convinced of the value of singing things like 'tits out for the boys', considering that i'm not sure it would do anything for the team and can make some female marinators uncomfortable. after a point the other night my girlfriend simply couldn't stand it anymore- i think this is a shame because otherwise standing and singing and supporting the team with everything she's got is what she wanted to do... i'm a marinator thoough, and i don't intend on stopping being a marinator (though my partner may not join in anymore), but at the same time there are some songs i seriously dislike and think probably ought not be sung. the value of a song should be measured in terms of what it does for the team- we barely sang any of the songs i have an issue with at the bling match and yet it was probably one of our strongest performances, coinciding with one of the team's better matches. i don't think we need to sing them at all, i think at any given moment there are probably better songs we could sing, i still think it's fair enough that i raise these concerns (and in turn, fair enough that the majority appear to disagree). mine is obviously just one opinion, i'm not telling anyone what to do (we're a group and things will happen as a group rather than because one self-appointed fella decides for everyone else) and i'm cool with being shot down, but it doesn't mean i don't think these are issues worth thinking about in a bit more depth than "he's not gay, so calling him a poof is fine".
|
|
|
Post by brett on Oct 4, 2005 13:54:26 GMT 10
Mate I appreciate everything you're saying but I dont appreciate you summing up my arguments (maybe it was directed at others, but it appears to respond to what i posted) in a shallow one liner. Otherwise I'll sum up what you're saying as "If it's not directly lifting the Mariners performance, dont sing it" and thats not what you're about.
The Marinators are more than just individuals fighting for the same cause, it's more like it's own little society with it's own unwritten rules. These rules state that everything is a joke, we're all there to have fun and when lines are crossed they wont be crossed by the group as a whole (ie racism). But if your girly cant stand 'tits out for the boys' then thats too bad for her, she must be really busy writing in complaints to every company with a TV ad, every tv channel or show, and every magazine who constantly objectify women. It's a shame to lose a member, but we'd lose more if we tried to censor that sort of thing that's become totally morally acceptable in this society. Not only that, most people realise that if you cant take a joke, bay 16 isnt really the best place to be.
As many have said, we dont need an excuse to sing whatever seems good at the time, we need a bloody good reason not to. We're really not going to any extremes compared to what stand up comedians, radio presenters and 12 year old kids say.
|
|
striker9
New Recruit
best striker ever!
Posts: 4
|
Post by striker9 on Oct 4, 2005 14:11:27 GMT 10
should we have some sort of code of conduct that relates to our songs, as well as our other conduct inside and outside the ground? one idea would be making sure that our songs are not sexist, racist, homophobic etc, simply because we're trying to build a base and it's good to ensure that nobody feels excluded. This is not a church choir mate! - We are the marinators for f*** sake.... I sort of like "tits out for the boys" Melsy said she was going to do it last friday...but no show?
|
|
marinermick
Moderator
Coming to Bay 16 Soon
Posts: 8,657
|
Post by marinermick on Oct 4, 2005 14:17:44 GMT 10
should we have some sort of code of conduct that relates to our songs, as well as our other conduct inside and outside the ground? one idea would be making sure that our songs are not sexist, racist, homophobic etc, simply because we're trying to build a base and it's good to ensure that nobody feels excluded. This is not a church choir mate! - We are the marinators for f*** sake.... I sort of like "tits out for the boys" Melsy said she was going to do it last friday...but no show? yeah but melsy was under the influence when making that statement lefty's drinks can be potent and there is no RSA in our virtual pub
|
|
|
Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Oct 4, 2005 14:41:30 GMT 10
yeah WT, you're right, i wasn't trying to put you into a nutshell...
my concern is not founded upon just ally being uncomfortable but the fact that i wonder how many others are uncomfortable with some of the songs. sometimes forums like these can become a bit like an echo chamber and can get a bit removed from what other people are thinking- the wider assumption that "everything's a joke so nobody should be offended" seems a bit removed from what people who aren't in here in the echo chamber might actually think.
john laws actually got dragged before the australian broadcasting authority just recently when he called carson kressley of queer eye fame a pillow biter, and while they found him not guilty of vilification they did describe his comments as 'offensive and tasteless', so it's not exactly what you'd call 'acceptable' for radio presenters either, if mick were to make similar comments on 2CCC he could expect some curry from the station...
your description of the marinators as a little society is spot on, but i don't quite know what you're getting at with your comment about 'complaints to every company with a TV ad, every tv channel or show, and every magazine who constantly objectify women' - it gives the impression that you're acknowledging a problem and deciding that it's not worth doing anything about it... the other thing that has come up a few times about [paraphrasing] "racism's out, but singing 'tits out for the boys' or calling the ref a poof is alright" seems to be missing the point - why is one thing different to the others? nor do i see why you need 'a bloody good reason' beyond 'some people find it offensive' to not sing certain songs.
i'm not being "incredibly picky" and asking that we sing hymns like dj suggested, nor stop singing that the ref's a dickhead as omni suggested, or anything like that, i just reckon there are at most maybe 2 or 3 things that we could do with not singing.
i enjoy practically all of the songs we sing (and sing til i feel like my head's going to explode) and i'm expressing a concern about a couple of things that i don't think it would take any great effort to change. i have to be honest that i'm surprised at the vehemence of the defence of these songs, as if not singing them will break down the marinators and all they have ever stood for...
i haven't been trolling for a fight, i've been raising honest concerns with the interests of the marinators' as a group in mind in a way that i hope hasn't been misconstrued as lecturing from on high, but instead just floating concerns i've held for a while and that became more pertinent to me on friday night.
i've probably written about twice as much as i could or should have otherwise written, but it's something i really do give a shit about. i'm not trying to paint people as crazed bigots or anything like that because i know that you are all (as i am) simply mad keen football fans who want to lift the team. i'd like to see this group grow and get louder and basically take the stadium over as much as the next person on here, and i want to see the mariners become the best football team in the country, but i won't abandon my right to raise concerns about things that i think we could do without.
|
|
marinermick
Moderator
Coming to Bay 16 Soon
Posts: 8,657
|
Post by marinermick on Oct 4, 2005 14:52:37 GMT 10
john laws actually got dragged before the australian broadcasting authority just recently when he called carson kressley of queer eye fame a pillow biter, and while they found him not guilty of vilification they did describe his comments as 'offensive and tasteless', so it's not exactly what you'd call 'acceptable' for radio presenters either, if mick were to make similar comments on 2CCC he could expect some curry from the station... . no one has said anything about me calling ned zelic fat almost every game ;D last friday night trent said that allsop was carrying some extra pounds and my reply was "must have been taking nutritional tips from ned zelic" one of the best of the night
|
|
|
Post by dibo (pron. "DIB-OH") on Oct 4, 2005 15:00:18 GMT 10
john laws actually got dragged before the australian broadcasting authority just recently when he called carson kressley of queer eye fame a pillow biter, and while they found him not guilty of vilification they did describe his comments as 'offensive and tasteless', so it's not exactly what you'd call 'acceptable' for radio presenters either, if mick were to make similar comments on 2CCC he could expect some curry from the station... . no one has said anything about me calling ned zelic fat almost every game ;D last friday night trent said that allsop was carrying some extra pounds and my reply was "must have been taking nutritional tips from ned zelic" one of the best of the night fair enough... but that probably comes under fair comment, and you could cover yourself in that it's both true and in the public interest!
|
|
|
Post by brett on Oct 4, 2005 16:26:59 GMT 10
Back to my original post, I said that (unlike the john Laws example or the racism thing) calls such as calling someone gay, homo, fag, pillow biter, shirt lifter etc etc is a mainstream insult. it's everywhere.
"your description of the marinators as a little society is spot on, but i don't quite know what you're getting at with your comment about 'complaints to every company with a TV ad, every tv channel or show, and every magazine who constantly objectify women' - it gives the impression that you're acknowledging a problem and deciding that it's not worth doing anything about it"
It's not up to the Marinators to fix society. 99% of us are there to have freedom, to have fun and yell out absurd things. As others said, if you want a 100% politically correct group you wont find it at the football. Censorship, restrictions, this little society doesnt like these rules. And my point about TV and magazines is that we're not doing anything more offensive than what you see in these mediums. So if you cant hack what the marinators say, you must have a lot of complaining to do elsewhere.
|
|
|
Post by Ursus on Oct 4, 2005 17:36:43 GMT 10
OK I can't keep out of this one any longer.
I agree with some of what dibo says especially "Tits out for the boys". The first time it happened it was funny and when it happens with reason, (occassional extreme provocation like Marinet models) it can remain so, but at the moment it is happening four or five times a night and just becoming crass. It will drive potential marinators (especially female ones) away.
I have been concerned with people on this forum saying that they were at the game but as they had kids with them they were not in bay 16. I find these comments disturbing.
What I really hate more than anything else is people starting a wave at critical times in a match. I was pleased that the majority hosed it down last week. A wave is just distracting and something to do when boredom sets in, not when we are desperate for a goal.
I do not think of myself as a wowser, I do like "Get into them, F*** them up, Muscatt's a wanker and "in your Newcastle slums". Personally I would not mind kids hearing these while drawing the line with "Muscatt takes it up the a***".
I feel if we want to grow and at certain times in the future be able to take the whole stadium with us in chants, we must avoid being too offensive.
"Politically correct" has become a derogatory term used by those in place of "acceptable". Everyone has there own line which they think should not be crossed. What we have to do is find where the appropriate line is for us.
I believe these discussions are important for us to remain relevant and think dibo should be praised for raising the issue.
|
|
|
Post by offtheball on Oct 4, 2005 20:16:12 GMT 10
Dibos got it 100% right!
|
|
|
Post by oor on Oct 4, 2005 20:23:37 GMT 10
what a load of rubbish... get over it
|
|