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Post by barron on Sept 2, 2007 12:50:21 GMT 10
With Jaza and Chooky here............loyalty matters in this game and you stick no matter what. I understand that position, and think it is true in some cases. For example, if you were born in the "blue" side of Manchster, and your folks, your grandparents your uncles had all supported Man City for a hundred years. Understand, that is tradiiton. But come on, the comp is 2 years old, all NEW clubs, NO tradition whatsoever. Therefore, it takes a couple of years to find out what the club stands for etc. What the Marienrs stands for is a whole lot more toward my way of thinking ,than what Hakoah stands for. Hence the change. That's all.
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Post by shipwreck on Sept 2, 2007 13:05:12 GMT 10
I agree with Baron here, although i can also see where Jaza and co are coming from, team loyalty is what builds clubs, but when you have a club as dynamic as Sydney in a 2 year old comp its not hard to see why some are getting cold feet inside their sky blue jerseys. I mean, fan loyalty and sticking through thick and thin is important, but club loyalty to the fans is equally important, you cant be sacking staff left right and centre, sacking players, changing club mission statements and hiring old mates as favours when ur trying to send the message to ur fans that this club is gonna stay the same and always be the sydney fc that won our first season....
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Post by Bearinator on Sept 2, 2007 13:05:43 GMT 10
With Jaza and Chooky here............loyalty matters in this game and you stick no matter what. I understand that position, and think it is true in some cases. For example, if you were born in the "blue" side of Manchster, and your folks, your grandparents your uncles had all supported Man City for a hundred years. Understand, that is tradiiton. But come on, the comp is 2 years old, all NEW clubs, NO tradition whatsoever. Therefore, it takes a couple of years to find out what the club stands for etc. What the Marienrs stands for is a whole lot more toward my way of thinking ,than what Hakoah stands for. Hence the change. That's all. Its much simpler. Born is Sydney, support Sydney. Born in Gosford, support Central Coast. I simply CAN NOT understand people not supporting where they are from. I realize that many of my friends from the marinators are not originally from the coast, but still support the coast. Whilst I may not understand or agree with their reasons for supporting the team, I deal with it. People that CHANGE team however, I have very little time for. YOU STICK WITH YOUR TEAM, THROUGH HARD TIMES AND BAD.
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Post by chooky on Sept 2, 2007 13:40:36 GMT 10
But come on, the comp is 2 years old, all NEW clubs, NO tradition whatsoever. Therefore, it takes a couple of years to find out what the club stands for etc. Yes and no, I've supported Newcastle United since the days of the NSL, and the only thing that really changed are the names and colours etc. Likewise would go for Perth fans.
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Post by LeedsMariner#4 on Sept 2, 2007 17:31:07 GMT 10
People that CHANGE team however, I have very little time for. YOU STICK WITH YOUR TEAM, THROUGH HARD TIMES AND BAD. I couldnt agree more. I am leeds fan and would never consider changing teams. I was North Sydney Bears supporter in Rugby League and when they left I have never considered going for another team
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Post by bikinigirl on Sept 2, 2007 17:48:42 GMT 10
. i reckon barron has done the right thing - he has followed his heart & his head
. i agree that with a new team (in a new comp) you don't know what you are buying into - if the mariners were full of a bunch of wankers and run the same as sydney a few mariners fans would be looking at jumping ship too
. i also believe that there are a few marinators around that have supported newcastle teams in the nsl - are you suggesting they should remain loyal to the con regime?
. i agree it is a bit odd in announcing your switch in allegiances this way, but it is good to understand the reasoning ie. mariners management compared to sydney
. welcome barron but god help you if you leave the mariners
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kevrenor
Moderator
Keeping the 'surrounding regions' yellow since 2004 ... Be Mariners, be Yellow, be a Marinator!
Posts: 2,130
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Post by kevrenor on Sept 2, 2007 18:59:42 GMT 10
With Jaza and Chooky here............loyalty matters in this game and you stick no matter what. I understand that position, and think it is true in some cases. For example, if you were born in the "blue" side of Manchster, and your folks, your grandparents your uncles had all supported Man City for a hundred years. Understand, that is tradiiton. But come on, the comp is 2 years old, all NEW clubs, NO tradition whatsoever. Therefore, it takes a couple of years to find out what the club stands for etc. What the Marienrs stands for is a whole lot more toward my way of thinking ,than what Hakoah stands for. Hence the change. That's all. This is an interesting debate, that I have seen before. It usually comes down to the person's own national, family or local traditions - or lack of them. Generally Australian born football fans haven't had the privilege of cradle to grave support. My story as an example of what Australian fans have had to cope with: 1956-1964 Gladesville Ryde United AFC - NSW Div 1 My local team, went with my Dad (club got amalgamated to death, and then died entirely, ground sold for housing) 1965-1976 Wandered as a neutral around NSW Div 1 with no local team and most single ethnicity based. 1977-1990 Half hearted support of Adelaide City in the NSL due to family background in Adelaide and hoping to move there to live (also had a marriage and growing family) - lack of job move and off field antics eventually pissed me off so much I gave up on Juve) 1990-1996 Wandered as a neutral in NSL - no team I feel I could support as most were single ethnicity based. 1996-2000 Looked for a club to support as children got to game going age - was accepted at newish Newcastle Breakers (a very generous thing for a Sydney family). Also attended local Northern Spirit FC from 1998 as it was my local team, but when Breakers played Spirit it was always Breakers for me. Breakers knifed by NNSWSF, Con, and other culprits like Andy Harper and Lee Sterrey. 2000-2004 Northern Spirit FC NSL killed off and Spirit with it! Plans known to start a team on the Central Coast with most spirit players and coach, but most decided to go with any new Sydney team. I and many on and off this forum went for the Coast. 2004-2005 My local 2nd tier side - Ryde City Gunners, and Coasties/CCU as a warm up. 2005 - forever I hope and until I die in the Marinators Donny Parkes Memorial Retirement Home - Central Coast Mariners FC! Welcome Barron. I do have some reservations about too blatant a display, such as on Friday night by ex Sydney people. A Great symbolism but I wouldn't want to see too much of it! I hate Unknighted/Jets for their link to Breakers demise but I don't cut up their scarves. Many ex Spirit Mariners fans have close friendships with Covers. As for Bearinator's passionate and well argued view - Sydney is not one city, most demographers will tell you it is several. The eastern/inner suburbs Bling are NOT my local team in any way I can relate to - in a strange way Mariners are more so. Some arguments suggest that if you were born in Orange you could be stuck supporting Canobolas Rangers all your life and be a HAL neutral! Oddly I have the same problem as Bear' in understanding how people passionately support a team on the other side of the world - my dad's home town of Oldham and my mum's families Cornish teams are only of an interest to me. EPL ... who cares!
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Post by brett on Sept 2, 2007 20:51:57 GMT 10
As kevrenor said, very interesting debate here.
There is no right or wrong answer and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
One thing is for sure: Mariners fans should be very pleased that our club's ethos is attracting support from all quarters. It's very good news for us and something to be very proud of.
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Post by djebella on Sept 2, 2007 21:08:22 GMT 10
One thing is for sure: Mariners fans should be very pleased that our club's ethos is attracting support from all quarters. It's very good news for us and something to be very proud of. brett is spot on here. It's not like he's changing teams because they are losing. It's because their culture is sh*thouse.
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Post by Ursus on Sept 2, 2007 21:37:36 GMT 10
I understand that position, and think it is true in some cases. For example, if you were born in the "blue" side of Manchster, and your folks, your grandparents your uncles had all supported Man City for a hundred years. Understand, that is tradiiton. But come on, the comp is 2 years old, all NEW clubs, NO tradition whatsoever. Therefore, it takes a couple of years to find out what the club stands for etc. What the Marienrs stands for is a whole lot more toward my way of thinking ,than what Hakoah stands for. Hence the change. That's all. Its much simpler. Born is Sydney, support Sydney. Born in Gosford, support Central Coast. I simply CAN NOT understand people not supporting where they are from. I realize that many of my friends from the marinators are not originally from the coast, but still support the coast. Whilst I may not understand or agree with their reasons for supporting the team, I deal with it. People that CHANGE team however, I have very little time for. YOU STICK WITH YOUR TEAM, THROUGH HARD TIMES AND BAD. Bear, Just consider yourself lucky that Spirit relocated to the further Northern Districts of Sydney and you got Lawrie and myself. If that had not happened you probably would be in the Squadron. Do not just deal with it, UNDERSTAND and AGREE. Don't you live in the Northern Suburbs of Sydney now?
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Post by gwynne on Sept 2, 2007 21:56:45 GMT 10
I thought it was pretty obvious this was just a case of the story being released fully. I mean there's a board of 7 and one guy is reducing his responsibility slightly while another is increasing it slightly. Either way they're both Lowy lackeys.
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Post by omni on Sept 2, 2007 22:45:23 GMT 10
Bear: Mate I was born in Sydney, but I'm 20 and have lived on the Coast for 17 years, under your theory I should support a team in a city that you probably have a hell of a lot more connection with, you should support whatever team you're most inclined to for whatever reason (Yea I know that allows glory hunters). I agree that changing clubs is bad.
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skilbeck
State League player
aloisi johnny aloisi aloisi he's a mariner
Posts: 321
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Post by skilbeck on Sept 2, 2007 23:26:40 GMT 10
I believe that changing teams is ok as long as one doesnt make a habit of it. Ive only ever supported the Mariners in the A League and thats all I ever will because I feel a connection with the coast as ive lived here for 18 years and as a part of a coastie diaspora now it helps me reconnect with my roots. I have support for Celtic simply because I have Irish RC origins not because im from glasgow. Those two teams ive never considered or will ever consider defecting from and therefore I can support them with a whole heart. Other football teams don't appeal to me and I cant guarantee my support for them for years to come. For instance I like manchester United but if I look even a year into the future I wouldnt know for sure if my zeal is still there and therefore I dont call myself a supporter or a fan. But yeah I see that bandwagons and glory hunting is a fact of life. For example if you look at the Brisbane bandwagon they supported the Broncos while they were the best team in rugby league for years and then they jumped ship to the Lions while they were the best in AFL and I bet that if the Roar comes good this bandwagon will jump on board. This sort of thing I dont support because it shows disloyalty not just to the team but to the code or league as well.
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Post by Perm on Sept 2, 2007 23:35:42 GMT 10
let the person support whoever they want to support. if theyve had trouble finding a place supporting a club, thats their choice, this is their way of picking his/her own team.
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Post by curious on Sept 2, 2007 23:54:50 GMT 10
Don't agree with that one mate. I'll watch AFL, League, Union, cricket & Football. (& my daughters netball) It doesn't mean I'm disloyal or a whore, it means I love sport & choose to do so because I enjoy it. Little Johny hasn't (yet) outlawed the freedom to watch or support what we wish. Each to their own, until we have fundamentalist sharia like football laws. Don't forget that most fans are not as ardent as the examples you see in supporter groups. But I agree there it's not necessary to make a song & dance about it.
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skilbeck
State League player
aloisi johnny aloisi aloisi he's a mariner
Posts: 321
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Post by skilbeck on Sept 3, 2007 0:19:34 GMT 10
Don't agree with that one mate. I'll watch AFL, League, Union, cricket & Football. (& my daughters netball) It doesn't mean I'm disloyal or a whore, it means I love sport & choose to do so because I enjoy it. Little Johny hasn't (yet) outlawed the freedom to watch or support what we wish. Each to their own, until we have fundamentalist sharia like football laws. Don't forget that most fans are not as ardent as the examples you see in supporter groups. But I agree there it's not necessary to make a song & dance about it. im not meaning people that actually watch different sports and are dedicated to each. im meaning people that fanatically support a team in a code for a year, this team will win the code or at least have a good season and then when the next season start they might lose their first 5 games and suddenly not give a s**t about the team or the code. This is being disloyal and whorelike
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Post by Bearinator on Sept 3, 2007 8:07:48 GMT 10
Its much simpler. Born is Sydney, support Sydney. Born in Gosford, support Central Coast. I simply CAN NOT understand people not supporting where they are from. I realize that many of my friends from the marinators are not originally from the coast, but still support the coast. Whilst I may not understand or agree with their reasons for supporting the team, I deal with it. People that CHANGE team however, I have very little time for. YOU STICK WITH YOUR TEAM, THROUGH HARD TIMES AND BAD. Bear, Just consider yourself lucky that Spirit relocated to the further Northern Districts of Sydney and you got Lawrie and myself. If that had not happened you probably would be in the Squadron. Do not just deal with it, UNDERSTAND and AGREE. Don't you live in the Northern Suburbs of Sydney now? Ursus, Iv disliked Newcastle and its bogans since WELL before the a-league, it would be a cold day in hell before you would have seen me there supporting them. And ok, with some peoples reasons for changing teams, I can understand, but that is not to say I agree. As you know, I was also a North Sydney Bears fan, I didnt jump ship to the nearest team when they folded, as I was a very passionate supporter of them, even though I was only young. Should the Mariners fold, I would not jump ship to another a-league team, I was born 300metres from Bluetongue, and its my team. There is no other. And if I have another person ask me "because you like on the North Shore now, are you going to support Sydney?" im going to flip. I see changing teams, when your old team is still around, as a bigger dog shot than a punch in the head from behind, and thats my opinion.
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Post by Jeff (LouMacari) on Sept 3, 2007 8:46:22 GMT 10
so ARE you going to support sydney now you live there bear? Just love the thought of you 'flipping'
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Post by Bearinator on Sept 3, 2007 8:49:56 GMT 10
so ARE you going to support sydney now you live there bear? Just love the thought of you 'flipping' (turns green, grows massive muscles, pants change colour to purple, rips shirt off, and says....) "WRRRRROOOAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR, ME KILL JEFF"
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Post by curious on Sept 3, 2007 13:08:56 GMT 10
Yep. But they are not fanatic supporters if that was the case. They are only pretending to be. The league is still a baby & people are still feeling their way. I am a little guarded in getting fantical at this early stage of the aleague because of past lessons of finger burning at national level football. A sort of long engagement before marriage to make sure I don't come home one day & find my home empty & my wife gone.
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