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Post by omni on Nov 12, 2006 22:13:38 GMT 10
"I'm not saying we should sack McKinna" ... "i might be tempted show up the the Adelaide game with a McKinna Out sign!"
hmmm I believe you.
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Post by blackadder on Nov 12, 2006 22:14:58 GMT 10
Just another point, thank god for Danny V in goals could have been alot worse apart from some great saves.
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Post by cahill17 on Nov 12, 2006 22:15:26 GMT 10
omni, how convenient that you cut out the "but if we fail to get a result against New Zealand" bit of my arguement...kinda changes the argument doesnt it, you tool!
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Post by Angelbabe on Nov 12, 2006 22:22:31 GMT 10
Thanks cahill17, i appreciate your opinion However, our judgement is not being clouded by being sentimental, i prefer to say we are loyal to our team and our manager and staff. Not every team can win every game. Yeah, we've had some shit games and shit times in games recently, but we've also had times of brilliance - first 23 mins of the melbourne game for example - yeah we let some goals through, but we got them back and more Yes, the long run is important, but so is the short term. That game is over. Lets learn from our mistakes and press on, the next focus is the game on sunday However, i still dont understand that if a team is going through a rough patch, suddenly its, oh we need a new manager, fresh ideas etc., when really, when we are playing well, the manager is rarely mentioned. but, on the other hand, life is like that.
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Post by greenpoleffc on Nov 12, 2006 22:24:23 GMT 10
The only thing he can have said against him (maybe) is that he recruited very poorly in the off season. Other sides have strengthened their squads. We didnt. That might not be his fault, he doesnt control the money.
We have 2 players injured who would be starters in any other side in the comp (Gumps & Tommy) and if you add a fully fit Mrdja, Clarkie, Ossie and Hutcho to todays starting 11 you have a good side.
Sadly, players like Tomasevic,Brown,Spencer etc may have been considered A league standard in season 1, but the comp has got better and they are now not up to the mark.
Inshort, we played crap and got what we deserved. Absolutely nothing
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Post by omni on Nov 12, 2006 22:24:31 GMT 10
When someone comes on here saying shit like that, early in their time here, using a user name similar to one a Melbourne fan uses (if that offends you I'm sorry) I think we're going to defend it, I'm sure you'll have no support in your campaign if you go there. But I'm not going to get personal, part of the greatness of Australia is that you're free to say what you want.
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Post by cahill17 on Nov 12, 2006 22:45:49 GMT 10
Angelbabe, thanks for your constructive response, a little different to the highly intelligent "f'ck off you prick" from one of the geniuses out there.
I understand that you feel that some loyalty should be owed to the coaching staff. And i will stand up and say that they were great last year in taking us to the final...full credit to them. But, IMO, this year we have been woeful! Our tactics have been the same game in game out, and our mistakes and faults have been the same, game in game out - it doesnt look like we've learned from our mistakes. Yes we played 23 good minutes against Melbourne, but thats 23 good minutes out of the last 270...i dont think that is good enough and if things dont get better i would like to see some changes...but hey, thats just how i feel and i fully accept the way you feel - different people, different opinions.
"early in my time here" hmmm does that mean that i have to make about 100 or so posts first that do nothing but agree with only the positive comments before i get to voice my opinion? funny i didnt read that requirement when i signed up...it must have been under the 'thought nazi' section i skipped over...along with the 'feel free to quote people out of context if you have made over 5,923 posts section'...my bad.
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Post by thesandman on Nov 12, 2006 22:49:30 GMT 10
Faults have been the same but tactics haven't. We started off poorly, we started to pick up then we got slaughtered with injuries. I think you have to look at everything before calling to get rid of McKinna. And our injuries have been making things tough, anybody would struggle with so many key players out. Loyalty has a place, but so does forward thinking. I don't agree with sharpening the knives the moment things don't go our way. It WAS looking positive but we had more luck. I don't know if I'd call the first 23min of Melbourne brilliant....maybe you could if you ignore our back line
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Post by Jesus on Nov 12, 2006 22:53:54 GMT 10
I think that we certainly lacked a tommy p or gumps getting behind mori to help him out. But i do not think it is laurie's fault that we dont have 3 players to play the exact position.
Only problem with mori for o'grady would be a lack of defenders in the squad. Clarky has been injured a fair bit this season. Maybe we have enough cover through sully, browny and porter, but maybe not.
I liked Jedi. Thought he started slow, but made a number of good tackles and did alot of work in the middle. Not a perfect game, but a good one for him.
There did seem to always have a free man wide where SP was drawn into the middle. We need Tommy and/or gumps.
I thought early on Kwassie was pretty good, I dont think anyone but mori looked like scoring for us tonight, but Kwassie was putting in the hard yards, and looking dangerous early. He seemed to tire like the rest of the team though.
Thought sully had a good game too, and danny ofcourse.
We had a good sized contingent tonight, but whether due to the heat, or being 2 behind, or whatever, we did get quiet at times.
I dont think there is any cause for major concern coming off this match. Long run at Fortress Bluetongue, and i see making the 4 at least.
My 2c
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Post by greenpoleffc on Nov 12, 2006 23:02:35 GMT 10
Talking to some bogans at HT and they were whining about being given comps (by Kloster Ford) in bay 10 FFS. The tickets were numbered and when they arrived they found their seats full of Mariners fans.
They had a few harsh words for the clowns that run the club.
Good to see no one behaving like a DH this afternoon (that I saw anyway)
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Post by Angelbabe on Nov 12, 2006 23:03:48 GMT 10
My main concern - where the hell was our left back??? They had a clear run down that side all of the second half. Some of those saves Danny made at the end very extraordinary although it sucked for the 3 that got past him I've heard mixed responses, but i thought that Vidmar played pretty well tonight, Sully too The heat sucked.... i think when its hot we need to spread out more, get more air in the area. I was so pissed, i missed mori's goal cause i was sitting down trying not to pass out
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Post by marinerbhoy on Nov 12, 2006 23:04:38 GMT 10
cahill17 you got to understand other peoples reaction when you talk about bringing signs about lawries sacking. he has shown what he can do, his only mistake is lack of squad changes(finances were not a problem here as the club works to max of the cap, with vidmar aswell) and the fact that he keeps on playing players like kwasnik and spencer(although that seems to have changed).
and also cahill17 is making is opinion, let him do so, no matter how much it conflicts with others, free speech blah blah. i had the same problems last year when i quoted the telegraph quoting lawrie. it was about the penalty in the melb game(tards won 2-1). many didn't believe it was a penalty and i quoted lawire agreeing with the ref that it was. a few people had a bit of a teary. so let people have an opinion-unless it defamatory(in cases towards anything scum related i find this acceptable)
if lawrie doesnt drastically change things around for version 3 then he should go. the way the team has played this season is pathetic. i can hop in my car and get some players to perform better upto gosford now. and they would play for free. you gotta ask why players like wilko, osman, spencer, petrie havnt played aswell this year. i dont feel its lawries fault, but if they hang around they will be deadwood, and if they are still playing shit next year then it will be lawries fault. and dont get me started if kwasnik gets another contract. i know he works hard but he just doesnt have it. he couldnt hit the side barn.
the club needs changes. whether they make the top 4 or not. because they cant challenge the title or make the ACL. that should be our target. this is season id a ride off because now mariners have learnt but needs to be done in the offseason. scouting should have already begun. i already know that fergie has overseen a serbian trialist 2 weeks ago(havnt spoken to his sister since so dont know how it went). lawrie is the man to take the mariners further than season 1. i just hope he will make the decisions to do so.
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Post by greenpoleffc on Nov 12, 2006 23:10:14 GMT 10
Kwassie regressed to his bad old ways today. Got isolated all the time, didnt support Mori and was a peripheral figure at best. Sad because he has worked v hard the last few games.
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Post by cahill17 on Nov 12, 2006 23:13:24 GMT 10
Ok. My point was that atm im not calling for McKinna to be sacked BUT if we if we dont get a result (and for the geniuses out there that includes a draw) angainst New Zealand i MIGHT be tempted to advocate getting a new manager. I know that we have a few players out injured atm and i accept that this is a good point, but i feel that its the poor tactics and same areas that we fall down in every week, ie. poor man marking, no tracking runners, and rarely any width in attack...it just doesnt seem to be addressed.
Just wondering if, hypothetically we played the same old crap and got beaten by New Zealand, and heres praying that we dont, how would you guys react then?
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Post by thesandman on Nov 12, 2006 23:14:02 GMT 10
I thought Vidmar was our left back? lol....if not he seemed to be there a lot anyway. I think Vidmar's plan was just to shut them down once they got to the corner . Perhaps not a bad move considering if he tried to intercept further up the field or mark he would've been outpaced. It was the defence in the middle and the right that allowed jets players to run straight for goal at will, while our left defence did allow players to move down the line they generally got held up on the touchline though. It wasn't terribly tight, but nothing overly crucial got through (although sometimes I think that was sheer luck). However, that DID also give Jedi more of an opportunity to try make his mark on the game. No, the 'defence' leading to the goals was more of a cause for concern. That first goal - how was that jets player allowed to stand in the box, right in front of goal, with nobody within 5yards of him? ?? (at least, that's what it looked like watching the big screen while standing outside in line......f***ing joke). Credit though, that was a top strike. The second goal....well, the attempts to tackle were weak and panicky at best. I'd like to say that we just need to tighten up our defence, but then I'd have to say the same for our midfield and attack too. Though I think the defence has been the big let down this season. Question - what exactly are we going to do up front once we lose Mori? We're going to be in trouble I think..... That issue with the ticketing doesn't surprise me looking at the organisation of that place. they've got a full stadium but they're still thinking in terms of a grandstand + hill. While I am concerned for our finals hopes, Jesus does raise the point of our run at Fortress Bluetongue. We'll lift, don't worry about that. Next season some hard decisions may need to be made though. In answer to your question cahill my reaction won't be any different to tonight. We've always struggled against NZ anyway. I'm not going to get overly worried...although it will be a bit depressing if we play like tonight again. Post mortem, but keep our eyes on the home stretch.
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Post by greenpoleffc on Nov 12, 2006 23:15:28 GMT 10
We would moan and bitch, complain and abuse players (and probably each other), then we would pick ourselves up and be at the game against Adelaide.
Thats what supporters do :-)
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Post by marinerbhoy on Nov 12, 2006 23:16:46 GMT 10
to me the decisions wouldnt be hard sandman.
vidmar was central defence with o'grady and then wilko
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Post by Angelbabe on Nov 12, 2006 23:17:06 GMT 10
I would be crushed yes. There is no doubt about that. Frustrated, crushed, upset and pissed off - however, loyal to the very end and beyond.
I dont know what others think, but the thought has never crossed my mind to replace him, and that thought wont be there if we lose either.
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Post by marinerbhoy on Nov 12, 2006 23:22:20 GMT 10
I would be crushed yes. There is no doubt about that. Frustrated, crushed, upset and pissed off - however, loyal to the very end and beyond. I dont know what others think, but the thought has never crossed my mind to replace him, and that thought wont be there if we lose either. a seaon of this shit is not enough to have him replaced. if he hadnt shown what he can last year than maybe, but now he needs to show another side to his managerial skills-recuitment
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Post by cahill17 on Nov 12, 2006 23:28:20 GMT 10
Dont get me wrong, if we get thumped 10-0 and play worse that usual i'll still be at the Adelaide game...im just a little surprised tbh that no one would start to hold McKinna responsible. And no i wont bring any signs to the game.
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