The Swearing issue

[DJ]

Hi guys,

After saturdays game with Perth the swearing issue has been a hot topic, so I have been in contact with the stadium to give some feedback and I think we should all read the following..........(this was my reply)

Dear David,

Thank you for your email and my apology for time in replying to your email.

In response to your email please see the following below-

The stadium was advised by the Local Police Command of complaints by patrons at the venue of offensive language over the last few events. After consultation with the management of the Central Coast Mariners, Stadium Management and the Local Area Command issues where identified and following put in place.

As the venue is a licensed premises just the same as a club or pub as such the use of offensive language is prohibited and patrons using offensive language will be removed.

The stadium has a responsibility to ensure the experience of attending a game is an enjoyable experience to all patrons.

Under the FFA code of conduct as attached it is noted on this document and as the venue we have to protect the property of the FFA.

The Marinators are a great thing for the Central Coast Mariners and the enthusiasm and support is absolutely fantastic but it still needs to be in a controlled manner.

The stadium management is fully supportive of the Marinators and of everyone having a good time and enjoying the experience but this experience needs to be enjoyed by all.

Please do hesitate to call or contact me with any further concerns.

The stadium is looking forward to a wonderful positive season ahead with the team and supporters and looks forward to building relationships within these communities.

Regards

This is from the A-League Code of Conduct attachment.................


1 August 2005 1

HYUNDAI A-LEAGUE
SPECTATOR CODE OF BEHAVIOUR
It is important that all spectators at a Hyundai A-League match are able to enjoy that match in a
safe and comfortable environment. Accordingly, each person present at a Hyundai A-League
match must:
(a) respect the decisions of Match Officials;
(b) respect the rights, dignity and worth of every person regardless of their race, colour,
religion, language, politics, national or ethnic origin;
(c) condemn the use of violence in any form, whether it is by other spectators, Team
Officials (including coaches) or Players;
(d) not engage in discrimination, harassment or abuse in any form, including the use of
obscene or offensive language or gestures, the incitement of hatred or violence or
partaking in indecent or racist chanting;
(e) comply with any terms of entry of a venue, including bag inspections, prohibited and
restricted items such as flares, missiles, dangerous articles and items that have the
potential to cause injury or public nuisance;
(f) comply with the ban on bringing national and political flags, banners or emblems into a
venue (except for recognised Australian or New Zealand national or state flags);
(g) not throw missiles (including on to the field of play or at other spectators) and must not
enter the field of play or its surrounds without lawful authority; and
(h) conduct themselves in a manner that enhances, rather than injures, the reputation and
goodwill of FFA, the Hyundai A-League and football generally.
Any person who does not comply with this Code or who otherwise causes a disturbance may be
evicted from the venue and banned from attending future matches.

With this in mind it will be interesting to see what happens at the other grounds!

[Adz]

I think the problem is lack of songs. We only do a couple and there's only one song with swearing in it (I can't hear a f***ing thing!!) - and I reckon that one would get bloody annoying after the 10th time if I was listening in the stands.

[Golden Boy]

Please do hesitate to call or contact me with any further concerns.

I assume this is a typo!

[MrCelery]

That was a pretty decent reply. Hard to argue.

Have to say that the FFA rules are a bit fanciful though. "Respect the officials?"

Quoting Darryl Kerrigan: "Tell him he's dreaming!"

[sealpup]

Since when does a controlling association like the FFA expect the spectators NOT to get upset and object verbally to some poor decisions made during the course of a match? Agree with Celery: They're dreaming.
Respect, well, I personally wouldn't thump a ref even if he robbed us of a match, but the officials know they can expect some verballing if they make a blunder.
Swearing, well, I think with the wit exhibited by some of the Marinators , we can skirt around that in our songs and chants.
But I have spoken to some folks who go to other sports and language is always present. Go to the Hill during a Test match and it's there. Go to the MCG on AFL Grand Final and it's there. If folks come to a football match they must expect that maybe the guy sitting next to them is gonna let fly sooner or later. Having families involved is great for any sport, but the families must also be aware that the atmosphere they want to experience also is tinged with a 'blue' edge. The trick is not to sit right next to it if you don't want little Johnny learning some new words! I was over in Bay 23 for the CWC Final against Bling and I couldn't hear exactly what the Marinators were chanting, but Bay 16 was going off -that's what got me into the Mariners -the atmosphere and enthusiasm for the team. I hope that the Stadium Management and FFA understand this and don't end up throwing Sonic's baby out with the bathwater!

[brett]

Look we all know there is swearing at every other sport, every schoolyard, and every street corner. The difference is that we are an organised group, and we sing together. Plus we're looked up to. If you're at a match of any kind and some pisshead gets up and yells "what the f*** was that, wilson!" and your kid hears it, you can tell your kid that guy is just a bad man! or a wanker as i would plan to tell my kids. but the marinators can be heard throughout the ground (i could make out the songs from inside a closed press box last saturday) so we're putting the words in their faces, and we're not just some wanker, we're the blokes that are supposed to be setting the example of how to support a football team. the kids want, and should be following our lead.

it's a sticky spot we're in, thats for sure.

[Fish]

I think the main use of the f word is in 1 song and as someone has already said if we sing a broader range of songs it will be less and less used.We did try to sing it without it but the passion just wasnt there.Well get past this quite easily.Agree WT we are the benchmark for support so we need to abide by some guidelines so they wont hammer us for the games we have at home.Its nice to know the stadium management like us and appreciate what we are about

[Ursus]

Time for some new songs.
1) "In your Newcastle slums"
A good traditional song to slag off at opposition supporters. Inoffensive (no grandmother verse) to stadium management.
I will put up three verses on this forum before the Newcastle game.
Other original verses can be easily devised
2) "Oh Central Coast, is wonderful"
Simple and short. There have been a couple of attempts to get this one up from up the back but have been unsuccessful. Needs Auburn or Froggy to lead.
3) "Come on Yellow, come on Yellow...
Very effective at times when the team needs a lift. This one will spread from Bay 16 under the right circumstances.
I will put the words up when I have more time in the next few days and discuss the organisation of them in the Kendall with Froggy, Auburn and DJ before the Newcastle game.

[DJ]

ursus said:

Time for some new songs.
1) "In your Newcastle slums"
A good traditional song to slag off at opposition supporters. Inoffensive (no grandmother verse) to stadium management.
I will put up three verses on this forum before the Newcastle game.
Other original verses can be easily devised
2) "Oh Central Coast, is wonderful"
Simple and short. There have been a couple of attempts to get this one up from up the back but have been unsuccessful. Needs Auburn or Froggy to lead.
3) "Come on Yellow, come on Yellow...
Very effective at times when the team needs a lift. This one will spread from Bay 16 under the right circumstances.
I will put the words up when I have more time in the next few days and discuss the organisation of them in the Kendall with Froggy, Auburn and DJ before the Newcastle game.

New songs and more variety is a must, we have songs on the web site plus I have many in my head that I have tried before but nobody joins in as they don't know them!

[striker9]

ursus said:

Time for some new songs.
1) "In your Newcastle slums"
A good traditional song to slag off at opposition supporters. Inoffensive (no grandmother verse) to stadium management.
I will put up three verses on this forum before the Newcastle game.
Other original verses can be easily devised

especially for the Adelaide games and possibly some others.... Must have the grandmother verse.... it's not offensive, except to granmothers, and not many grandmothers come to the game anyway.....

Swearing is ok, practice it often and it will become a habit.

We should also introdce the Mac Terrace tradition of letting go of your beer cup when ever we score..... in an upward motion so that pople around you get a beer shower..... luvit!!!!

I also think that some of the guys have to stop doing the mexican vawe second before a crucial free kick is taken.... do that during injury time or when the game is slow ....

what you think?

[Golden Boy]

I agree about the mexican waves. Before match or when someone is being stretchered off. Too often it is in the most inappropriate time but we have to back up one of our own starting something.
I wonder how many patrons complained about the swearing. If we are really offending a great number we should stop. We don't want to turn people away. But I highly doubt it is a large number.
The six old people who complained can f*ck off.

[brett]

Brings back memories of when we went to the ice hockey. We're at a frikkin ice hockey match, in the grandstand and some old bat complains that its too loud. TOO LOUD. That was at the start with the 10 of us singing. Later in the game we had the whole crowd behind us and the grandstand shaking! Take that we said!

[serious14]

Seems to me that the only reason this has become an issue at all is because it's football..... I've been to every Waratahs home game (and some away) since 2001, and I can promise you that the language there is anything but clean (from passionate supporters and first timers alike). I guess that's the curse of the 2 respective sports having blind and deaf refs.

However, I have noticed a lot of families and such in Bays 15 and 17..... maybe that's something to do with it?? But surely these ppl understand what they're in for??

[Fish]

Agree serious they would have an idea of what gets said but seeing as the bays opposite us are general and less expensive for families we have to be shown to be trying to curb our language a little

[omni]

Serious 14, watch what you say about Rugby Union refs, great people, except Nigel Williams bastard.

[glen006]

all referees are bastards, and I can say that given I referee at a higher standard than you Chris

[omni]

pffft sure, sure. I question your parentage

I need a gig, gonna have to find someone that needs a L2 touch judge, I haven't had a run in ages!

[brett]

I will post this here, to keep perspective. After the threat of booting all the marinators out if anyone swore on sunday i got in touch with john mckay from the mariners about it. Apparently he was present, and in touch with the policeman in question, and the threat was that inidividuals swearing would be removed. same thing really, when you consider that another 'i cant hear a f***ing thing' would have got us all removed in theory.

now i've been arguing my pants off all day, pointing out a few things.

- bay 16 is apparently the only venue in australian sport that this sort of treatment is being presented (short of someone yelling out 'go you f***ing c**t' at a snooker tournament.

- bay 16 is the only place in my life, including the playground and the classroom, that this sort of censorship has been put in place.

- bay 16 is where we all gather to let out our weekly emotion for the one thing we all care about most passionately. considering the above two points, it seems very unfair that the place we come to do this is also the only place in our lives that swearing is frowned upon.

- the treatment we get is because we are fanatical football supporters

however, it seems that if the police have made up their minds, there's really not much we can do about it. I simply propose that we proceed with our wanker calls etc, and replace f*** with puck. i was told that replacing things with representations, as heard on todays radio, is ok. puck has a bit of history from when we went to the ice hockey so its fun. it's unfair, but there's nothing i can do.

so instead i have proposed the following to John, for the following reasons.

he reduces the amount of security and police presence around our bay.

i dont like being labelled a criminal, or someone who associates with criminals, when we've done nothing to suggest this.

we are the most passionate mariners fans, and therefore would be MORE likely to help the club than hinder it en masse with a riot or whatever the hell they are waiting for us to do.

for every one dickhead who plays up there would be 20 or more marinators willing to help police 'apprehend' him or deal with him accordingly.

the rest of the crowd is supposed to follow our lead, and at the same time they are being told that these guys are no good and need lots of law enforcement to keep them under control.

and what it all boils down to: Just because we stand and sing, why does that make us more likely to become unruly, out of control or unlawful? the fact that our bay gets the most attention PROVES that they have no idea what football supporting means. there could be a pack of paedophiles or killers sitting in other areas, where there are one or none guards. but we are being treated by an undeserved reputation that was forged in europe, and closer to home, at the ethnic grounds. i dont feel we should be labelled that way.

now i will copy what was written between john and i for those interested in more than this already lengthy summary. start at the bottom for chronological order.

John

I appreciate the comments, I wasn't aware of the interaction you had with the policeman and Dave, only what Dave reported back to me. Which was that they would remove people en masse if the swearing continued.

On a personal level, what you are saying makes sense to me. I continued to sing myself coarse (minus the tiny minority of swear words) trying to lift the boys to a win. But overall the Marinators were censored, and lost a lot of enthusiasm. This sort of thing happens when people are threatened by the police. Dave personally is getting very tired of being pulled aside as he doesn't even swear himself.

As I said, we are the exception of the A-League fans being treated like this. In Perth, the loudest most popular chant is directed at the opposition goalkeeper when he takes a goalkick- "You fat bastard you fat bastard you fat bastard, you're shit, aaahhhhhh." This is clearly audible around their ground and over the Foxtel coverage to anyone who tunes in to see what the A-League is about.

We are the exception in our own ground because as I said, I know that there was swearing in other parts of the ground, especially with the standard of refereeing we received, but no action was taken. Probably because just about every security officer was lurking around bay 16 and not the other areas.

I've been to plenty of Rugby League games and know the kind of people that get ejected, and it's mostly to do with alcohol, and directing offensive comments towards specific targets. I dont drink at games because of meda commitments afterwards and know that my behaviour on a personal level wouldnt get me kicked out of an NRL game. It's a combination of the factors of us being an organised group, being football supporters, and the police people's lack of education of these points that cause the problems.

I'm sure I may as well be banging my head against a wall arguing the point of swearing. But if something does change, I would like to see the amount of police and security presence around us reduced. I and others feel victimised by the fact that there is so much there. As a member of bay 16, I feel like I'm being labelled a criminal or someone associated with criminal actions by the fact there is so much presence there.

It would be like having a cop follow you around for wearing a trenchcoat in the street. Much worse is that I pay good money to get into the stadium and still receive this treatment. Not once has there been the slightest indication that there would be major problems in bay 16. If there were, there would be 20 marinators for every one problem causer that would want to assist the police in removing the wrong doer. the money you are spending on their wages maybe as well be spent on a giant sign that says 'bad guys' for the front of the bay.

if you say it's precautionary, why isnt the same presence in any bay with people in it? wearing shirts and singing songs doesnt make us any more of a threat than the next guy. but we're being labelled and treated that way. thats where the level of education lacks.

Just from me to you, so you really know where we're coming from, it's not that we cant enjoy the day without swearing. It's just that the stadium has become the only place in my life (and practically everybody elses) where I dont have the freedom to say what I feel. Including the playground, and the classroom. It's the place where emotions are running the highest as well. And this treament, out of every sport, every stadium in the country, has been centralised to bay 16 on Mariners matchday. We have every right to be upset.

I will go back to the others and see what they have to say before asking for the police contact.

Thanks again for your time, I know there are productive ways you would like to be spending it.

Brett


>From: "John McKay" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
>To: "'Brett Taylor'" <[e-mail]>
>CC: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: RE: Meeting with Marinators?
>Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:04:41 +1000
>
>Brett,
>
>I got a call from stadium management that there was a problem with the
>swearing. I came over to the bay and was there on the end of the policeman
>talking to Dave Redden. I spoke with Simon Fisher and then the policeman The
>policeman confirmed to me and Simon that only people swearing would be
>removed, not everyone. He said that they had thought everything ok until one
>chant - I think the one to the Newcastle fans and that the F word would not
>be tolerated and people around the Bay should not be subjected to it.
>
>I saw the same policeman 3 or 4 times during the remainder of the match at
>various parts of the ground and he had advised that everything was ok after
>Dave spoke to the group and no one had been ejected.
>
>I know it must seem hard on you guys but they won't tolerate swearing and
>every time it happens we go back to square one.
>It is not trivial to them. It happens at other venues in other codes and on
>average quite a few people get ejected at Rugby League games(even at Central
>Coast Stadium).
>
>We can't as a club influence the police in this matter whilst the swearing
>continues and nor should we.It is starting to sound to me like you can't
>support the team, sing your songs and enjoy the day without being able to
>use words like f***.
>Sometimes things can be implied without having to actually say the swear
>word. It seems to be pretty common practice amongst some of the popular
>songs on the radio these days.
>
>We also don't want or need the extra police prescence because at the end of
>the day we have to pay for it.
>
>If you guys want to meet with the appropriate police contact I can provide
>details for you.
>
>Regards,
>John
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brett Taylor [mailto:[e-mail]]
>Sent: Monday, 5 September 2005 1:56 PM
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: RE: Meeting with Marinators?
>
>
>re: the sign, that's under control and we'll be paying him tomorrow.
>
>I'll explain what happened in bay 16. About 10 or 20 minutes into the match,
>after we'd been singing our usual catalogue of songs, about 5-10% having the
>f or s-words in them, a policemen, to our understanding the highest ranked
>of the officers that were there, pulled out Dave Redden, a big bloke with a
>big voice who is somewhat of a leader type figure in the centre of the
>Marinators group. Dave came back and announced to the entire group what the
>officer had told him, which was that if any single person in bay 16 said a
>single swear word again, they would remove everyone from the bay. we adhered
>to this rule for the rest of the match but were certainly a lot quieter, i
>think some people had left the bay altogether out of personal protest and
>others weren't singing. for those that were still singing there was always a
>hesitation because we had to make sure what we said wasnt going to get us
>all ejected.
>
>we had a disappointing number of marinators anyway, but it was the quietest
>we've ever been, and that isnt in the best interests of anyone. there are 3
>things i want to do as a marinator, which are 1) lift the team 2) have a
>good time myself and 3) create the atmosphere for the stadium.
>
>the treatment we are getting is hindering all of these purposes.
>
>i've done my research, and this situation isnt being reflected at any other
>a-league grounds. the fans of rival teams think it's ridiculous. at other
>sporting codes this sort of thing is unheard of also. the cowboys rabbitohs
>match at gosford a couple of weeks ago proved that. also, in other areas of
>the ground there is plenty of swearing, as family members have told me and
>as you can hear coming through on the fox coverage. we've done everything
>else the police have asked, and there has never once been a sign of trouble
>in our area. yet they persist to surround us with excessive numbers,
>seemingly waiting for us to throw some flares or start ripping up chairs or
>god knows what.
>
>i would love to see the rest of the crowd embrace the marinators and follow
>our lead. but when we are seen constantly surrounded by police and security
>what kind of image does that give people of us. i'd assume parents would
>want their kids to have as little to do with us as possible.
>
>i know the club wants the marinators to be as successful as possible, and
>this seemingly trivial issue is hindering our efforts to the extent of
>decreasing our numbers and volume. it's not a threat, but i make the point
>in telling you that there have been whispers of total silence or total
>boycott if our treatment doesnt get up to scratch.
>
>so that is our situation. if the club cannot have any influence on the
>matter, i would at least apprecriate your thoughts and the police contact we
>need to go to directly. thank you for your time in reading this lengty
>response also, it's obviously something i feel very passionately and
>strongly about.
>
>regards
>brett
>
> >From: "John McKay" <[e-mail]>
> >Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
> >To: "'Brett Taylor'" <[e-mail]>
> >CC: <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: RE: Meeting with Marinators?
> >Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 13:23:11 +1000
> >
> >Happy to meet Brett but both Lyall and myself will really struggle to do so
> >this week. If it is a major concern before Saturday night's game we will
> >need to liase on email at the moment. Can you expand on same topic - Police
> >/ Swearing??
> >
> >We have also had a phone call from the sign man who made the Marinators
> >banners. We have paid for the big one(website) as agreed but he claims he
> >can't get payment for your other one?? This is really non of our business
> >it's between him and the Marinators but you might want to talk to the
> >others
> >about it.
> >Regards
> >John
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Brett Taylor [mailto:[e-mail]]
> >Sent: Monday, 5 September 2005 12:57 PM
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Meeting with Marinators?
> >
> >
> >John,
> >
> >It's Brett Taylor here, one of the Marinators you met with in the most
> >recent meeting at the Central Coast Leagues Club. (the young one)
> >
> >An issue has come up at the Jets game that we feel we need to meet with you
> >about. Unfortunately it's to do with the same topic our last meeting was
> >about, but in this case we really feel we've been treated unfairly and
> >would
> >like to plead our case to the club in the hope of getting your support on
> >the matter.
> >
> >I met with Lyall at the post match function last night and it was great to
> >see him up and about, if he felt he could attend that would be great too.
> >
> >Let me know if this is possible and of course a time and place that suits
> >you.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Brett Taylor
> >[e-mail]
> >
>

[brett]

john just replied saying that the security is evenly spread around the pitch (explain fatman scoop!) and that the police go to bay 16 because it is the best view of the whole ground. also that 6-9 police are at each game, who has seen at least 6 at the top of bay 16 at one time? far out...

apparently a marinator went in today and demanded his season ticket money back.

look people, we can either go to the police contact that john can provide us with, and i'm happy to put our case together and spend the time doing it if people feel that strongly about it, or we can just hack the situation, be censored, lose members, be quieter and move on with no swearing.

adhering to unfair threats is against everything i believe in, but i am just one yellow. what do others think.

[DJ]

Thanks for putting that on here Brett. If it's the word f*** that's causing such a big hoo har lets just say friggin, I can't be bothered to have the nazi police bugging us every game. At times for example when Ante 'Klinsmann' Milicic takes a dive or Reddy the tosser time waster people are going to swear as they please, its heat of the moment and the police probably wouldn't hear an individual say it due to the noise.

But the positives are, the team can hear us chant their name and WE DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. My wife wandered up to the top tier yesterday as her parents were there and she said when we all sing together it can be cleary heard. This of course was on a day that we were quieter than usual, so can you imagine what it would be like when the bay is full?